After our victory in last year's election, where over 88.3% of the 49th Ward's lakefront voters said NO to marinas, lakefront landfill, roads, and commercial development, this message is a hard one to write because it is now screamingly apparent that our elected officials JUST DON'T CARE what WE want. The Chicago Park District has announced a public meeting to unveil plans for LANDFILL, ACCESS ROADS and a MARINA adjacent to Loyola University!
Look on page 15 for the "Edgewater Harbor" design (though I think we should call it what it is, which is the LOYOLA MARINA!).
CPD Meeting
Thursday, October 20, 6:30pm
Loyola Park Field House
1230 W. Greenleaf Ave
6:30pm
So despite Jan Schakowsky's posturing that we were being paranoid and her lies that "There are no plans", here we are. Some other lies that will be told at this meeting:
** This will bring needed revenue to the city. (The truth-Not in our lifetimes. This project is likely to be funded by bonds. Every cent of profit will go toward paying those bonds off for the next 20 or 30 years.)
** This will add green space to the community. (The truth-their map has a nice reassuring green space, but how much of that space will actually be blacktop and cement? There will be "support facilities" for boaters, washrooms, showers and snack bars. There will also be parking for boaters. How much of that green space will be eaten up for parking for 400 boaters and their boat trailers?
** This will be a resource the community can enjoy. (The truth-just visit the redesigned Belmont Harbor. Not only are "the Rocks" gone, which was a popular place with local residents-albeit not likely yachters-chain-link fences now enclose the area. You can't get near the marina unless you have a boat there.)
** Public participation has been a part of the planning process. (The truth-carefully chosen members of the public have been part of the planning. Attendees of the 'working group' meeting in August were not from our community. In fact, according to their notes "the majority of which indicated an affiliation with a boater's organization or a yacht club." NOT the residents adjacent to the project, not the voters who voiced their opinion last year. YACHT CLUBS!
The notes also say that, "boaters are concerned that the public not get access to their slips and boats."
This marina and landfill are not needed by this community. The traffic problems on an already nightmarish Sheridan Road do not need the additional tie-ups of boaters with their trailers trying to turn into the access roads on what are now residential streets. The swimmers in this community don't need the polluted waters produced by motor boats.
Again, quoting the CPS's notes, environmental concerns were voiced, "including PCB levels and any needed environmental clean-up costs within Monroe and other existing harbors, and concerns over oil leakage and some boaters' dumping pollutants within the harbors. Trash and other floating debris within the harbors were also mentioned." Children playing at Berger Park don't need a dangerous access road circling their playground.
What is needed from the Park District in this community is the LONG PROMISED park at Gale School. What is needed from the Park District in this community is improved local park facilities. What is needed from the Park District in this community is after school programs in the local parks.
But when we ask for these things the Park District cries poor-they can't afford it. Well, IF YOU CAN'T PAY THE RENT, YOU DON'T BUY A PRADA BAG! This project is a Prada bag, a perk for the North Shore boaters who can't get a slip downtown. This project is another LAND GRAB by Loyola (flush with all that new-found TIF money) who tried unsuccessfully to get a landfill on the same spot years ago.
It's essential that the voters who've been ignored come to this meeting to be heard. Come early. Bring signs. SAY NO to the LOYOLA MARINA! Sorry for the length of this missive. It's a big issue but our ultimate response is simple. NO.
Anne Sullivan
34 comments:
First of all, the 20th is a Thursday. I think that a lot of assumptions are being made here. Why don't we wait until the meeting and ask them questions before we start shouting? I am pleased that they are meeting with us at all.
Also, it has been discussed before that people bring other ideas for park district projects we would like to see.
Corrected day, anything else. This was sent to me by Anne at Save the Lakefront.
I understand that Anne is very involved in conservation and I appreciate that but I think that with good planning, there can be good responsible development.
I know a major concern in this neighborhood is parking accomodations for the boaters and their trailers. I don't think these are the type of boat facilities where the boaters would be towing them in and out everyday. At other marinas/harbors they are in the water the entire season. Also, I looked at the overhead of the parking lot at Montrose harbor on Google Earth (which is awesome) and it only takes up a small amount of the overall park space. This proposal puts it on a similar scale so I would encourage anyone to take a look at that facility as a model. I think that it is quite nice, although I do not know what the ecological impact was. I imagine Anne could provide some numbers. Again, I think we should be prepared to ask a lot of questions at the meeting and see how it goes. Who knows, maybe I'll get on The Price is Right and win a boat someday.
I'd also be interested in hearing from business owners in that area to find out what kind of impact the construction of that harbor had on them.
James,
Good questions. I might not know the answers but I have a few ideas.
1) non- boat owners will gain from this plan?
According to this we would gain additional park facilities, more beach property instead of rocks, and possibly more money flowing through local businesses. Not sure if all those will come true but Ithink that is what we need to get from them next Thursday.
2) If the issues behind the referendum that was voted through previously are the same or very close to the same here?
I am not sure about the referendum because I was not here last year. Does this referendum have any power to block a plan we find to be disagreeable?
3) how this facility plan would strengthen the arguments for an LSD extension through Rogers Park?
I wouldn't think they would bother to build this facility as it is currently laid out, only to have to bulldoze it later to extend the drive. If anything, I would think that this project would delay any plans to extend it. Again, good question to ask at the meeting.
Thanks for the good discussion,
For what it's worth. If a harbor is going to be built, this seems the least objectionable local to me. It is not without it's problems as many of you already pointed out. However if this is the case, I think it time to be acting more realistically political and see what we may get in return if it will indeed be built.
I think we should explore all aspects of opportunity when discussing the future of our neighborhood.
Some of you may not be willing to compromise on this issue from a purely environmental standpoint and I truly respect that.
I think it is high time we start staring reality square in the face and determine what we WANT every bit as much as what we DON'T want.
Time to get in the game (sorry for the metephor) and not be caught crying and moaning after the fact with nothing to show for it.
I refuse to apologize for accepting that Politics is the art of compromise and long term planning.
My 2 cents
Ok- when I first looked at the plan I thought it looked pretty decent BUT when thinking about the environmental aspects, drunk driving, traffic conjestion (I thought there WAS parking on there-just not detailed enough info) it gives me pause big time.
And Anne makes a really good point about pouring all this public money into something that will improve the lives of boaters but what about all the kids in the hood that are falling by the wayside every day? This is alarming also.
I also think that Charlie makes a very good point about politics and negotiating. If we were to lose the battle against a harbor(assuming we decided to be against it) we should be prepared with a list of demands. For example, how about a bird sanctuary to make up for all the displacement? I am way in favor of more wild areas in our parks.
Look at Central Park after all and NY is a bigger city than Chicago. We need habitat here for the critters. Makes life more livable to have some nature in the city and we are blessed with the lakefront and in RP our lakefront is GREAT.
I don't know what else we would want- maybe some kind of consideration for local existing businesses and a lack of vanilla-land chain stores over there would be one other thing I can think of though.
great discussion.
One thing to Charlie: Don't give up before the fight has even started! Do you really believe what the majority of voters in the area want is irrelevant?
RPN Said: One thing to Charlie: Don't give up before the fight has even started! Do you really believe what the majority of voters in the area want is irrelevant?
Give up? I am not even sure where I stand on the issue just yet. As EOG mentioned this was a non-binding referendum. Testing the waters if you will. Since then we have a "proposed".... haorbor/marina at Loyola. FWIW I was at the very first meeting at the Evanston Library a few years ago? and asked the panel if they were considering other locations if the Cavalry site tanked. They told me outright NO! I was having dinner two nights later with my sister and mentioned it. She chuckled and said that she knew and believed the Park District had been working for many years to increase the boat slips all up and down the lakefront. (not public knowledge at the time clearly) So I am not overly suprised by this
All I am saying is that we should be looking at all the facts and proposals as they become available, and be smart and realistic about what we oppose for the sake of opposition. I swear if Joe,The Mayor and Jan ran(assuming they are all running again) their next election platforms promoting only no growth enviro-conservancy, many people in this hood would find a way to oppose them in grand contradiction of their own stated beliefs JUST TO OPPOSE!
So...let's just say hypothetically that the powers that be (including Ald Moore)have know all along this was the case. That is a huge political liability for Joe based on the referendum. So let's assume the rumors floating around about said Ald are true, and this is his last term, and Politics being POLITICS .. deals are cut that allow a marina to be built here. Everybody is happy except the people who opposed the marina. The liability lands squarely in the hands of Joe's sucessor... assuming his Guy or Gal becomes next Alderman. If not...well no liability for anybody.
It's not that big a stretch to imagin this senerio. What then? Are we left standing with our hands in our pockets kicking sand and throwing rocks at motor boats. Think about and consider all the possibilities, not just the possibility that what YOU want may not turn out in your favor.
It's a 50/50 shot. It's gonna happen or it's not. What might we get or want in return for backing this plan?
I will give you a few things I want for Rogers Park, regardless of the Marina.
1. I want Morse Ave to be a pedestrian shopping district from Wayne to Greenview. I want a 100 car parking facility where The strip mall is east of the El. Parking is an unfortunate reality that is a compromise on my part, not my ideal. The only traffic passing through would be busses and Police. This makes Hugh and me happy because the seniors and shoppers in the neighborhood don't have to deal with auto traffic.
2. I want Mark Millers design for a Band Shell that actually starts on Morse as a boardwalk from a new El stationto be a reality and built in Loyola Park. See his website if your not familiar at zenplusarchitecture.com
3. I want a large amout(20 acres?) of open space created with any landfill that is part of the lakefront plan, and only half of that to be accesible by humans. In addition I want a state of the art Green Designed environmental learning center built for both school children and adults alike to learn about and understand OUR local environment not the Rain Forest or Sarengetti plains
These are just 3 things I want....
I got a list of other things I want for ALL of us but I will spare you in this post.
FOR THE RECORD>>>> The above comments about the local political establishment is nothing but my active and overly stimulated imagination working through long view scenarios. THEY ARE NOT BASED ON ANY MORE KNOWLEDGE THAN ANYBODY ELSE MAY HAVE. I WAS SIMPLY RESPONDING TO A RUMOR POSTED ON THIS BLOG. I have no idea what they think about any of this.
As you all know I have alot of respect for the local pols and everybody else around here. Even you Craig! ;)
I know what alot of you DON'T want. What I want to know is what you DO want!
Let's hear it and feel free to skewer me up and down if you see fit. I can take it. I never take Politics personally.
Thanks for reading.
>What is needed from the Park District in this community is the LONG PROMISED park at Gale School.
I found this expenditure on the Illinois State Board of Elections Campaign Disclosure web site. I thought it might be of interest to neighbors.
3/17/2003 $125.00 Citizens for Joe Moore to:
Imagine Inc.
7015 N. Glenwood
Chicago, IL 60626
Purpose: photographs for gale groundbreaking
So far the Gale Park field house is a photo op for politicians, but not a place where children can recreate.
>I think it is high time we start staring reality square in the face and determine what we WANT ...
> ... Politics is the art of compromise and long term planning.
>What might we get or want in return for backing this plan?
What we want is a mystery? Are you now proposing we trade a marina for a fieldhouse that has been in planning for a decade?
>I want a 100 car parking facility where The strip mall is east of the El.
Have you selected a location for your restaurant, but you're worried about where your hordes will park?
Hugh,
I may actually agree with you on this one. Gasp!
When you say fieldhouse, do you mean the huge Gale Community Center project? I think it looks like a great idea but perhaps its design was a little ambitious. Do you know what sort of a timeline was given for the project or what type of funding issues they might still be facing?
I am not certain that these projects would necessarily be at odds with each other. Often there are entirely different avenues of funding for different projects within the same organization. Take the funding for the CTA for example. Operations and infrastructure are operated and funded independently of one another. I think that would be a good issue to bring up at the meeting.
Thanks Hugh,
I also want the Field House to be built. Lets call it #4
Did I say Trade a Marina for a field house? Nope that was you.
Nope....no location for a restaurant yet but thanks for asking. Got any ideas? Got any $? Got any gum?
Come on someone give me #5
I reject your premise. You can't negotiate in good faith with untrustworthy parties. No horse trading for the field house or the marina.
Whew. Lots of activity on these boards these days.
Hey Charlie - Thanks for stepping up to the plate with some actual ideas. I disagree with you on some things, but I like your ideas.
Here's a few that I have:
1) Bring back the lifeguard program at the park. Furthermore, I want to see more community programs (such as Midnight Basketball, Kayaking, Music Programs, etc.). Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe they won't work. We need to try harder. If they build the marina, I want the Park Service to agree to funding these programs out of the profits and budget from the marina. I'll gladly pay higher taxes for these programs.
2) I'd like the police to actually arrest the people openly dealing drugs on Morse Ave. I see them nightly. There's no reason why the police shouldn't arrest them.
3) I'd like to see the police actually use the images caught on tape at 1345 W. Lunt of criminal acts committed to arrest and prosecute offenders. Contrary to the police line at CAPS meetings, videotaped evidence is probable cause for arrest.
4) While we have different jazz and arts festivals, I think it would be great to have some sort of Rogers Park carnival (carnival -- not circus) once a year that brings together ALL segments of the community in a celebration of Rogers Park. That means Latinos, African-Americans, Ango-Saxons, etc. Bring all segments in on the event. Shut down some roadways or block of some of the beach for the event, and bring the bands, food vendors, businesses and everyone together for a weekend of celebration. Hell, we have the lake, why not throw some sort of yearly shindig at the beach? That could be some good PR and tons of fun.
5)Build an honest-to-god community center that can be used for CAPS and community meetings, after school programs, athletic/gym stuff for kids, etc. We desperately need this.
6) A long-term development plan for RP. This would take a long time and we are already years behind. I'm sure it would be contentious and full of opposing viewpoints. I think it's long past time. I don't think anyone is looking down the road 10-20 years from now.
I'm sure when I post this, I'll think of 20 other things.
I would like to see a lot of park projects. Getting all the loose stones off the beach to avoid the rock throwing debacle that occurred at Fargo beach several weeks ago would be nice. It would make it more comfortable to sit in the sand too.
Building more concessions, bathrooms and replacing dated fixtures that don't work well.
There are still a few of the old public grills around that are kind of clunky. Adding more of them and replacing the old ones would be great. I don't have a car and I can't have a charcoal grill on my back stoop. Stupid rules.
More park shelters would be nice if we put them up in already paved or sandy areas so as not to pave over grassy areas.
A dog park has been brought up by several people. Maybe even a small section of beach set aside for dogs.
Most of all, more childrens programs that teach leadership and good citizenship.
If we can get just a few of these things I would be overjoyed.
Thanks Dan2 and Michael K Were rolling now....
Never opologize for disagreeing.
Hugh thanks for not telling me what you want...Oh wait you said you didn't want to trade your horse. That's fair.
A man's horse is after all a man's horse.
Where do you keep that thing anyway?
One more thing I want is for the Village North theatre to go back to being a small second run Art House.
Hugh,
Just a thought...would if we allowed horse parking as part of an overall plan?
I want a good bike shop. Actually I want to own a good bike shop. I wonder if I open a restaurant /Bike shop???
if horse parking would be an issue? Anybody know if this info is on a website anywhere?
Come on tell me what you want!
Forgot the Gale Park Field house, Charlie? Lot of that going around, in certain circles.
You're not trying to distract folks from the marina, are you?
You're suggestion is we compile a wish list to bring to the meeting?
I believe it was suggested that if we oppose a marina that we bring alternative ideas for park development. I think they meant revenue generating ideas but any ideas are better than simple rhetoric.
> ... it was suggested that if we oppose a marina that we bring alternative ideas for park development.
Who suggested that?
It was suggested when this meeting was first discussed on this blog a few weeks ago. Without going through all the previous postings I could not say for certain but I think it was James. If I am wrong I'll go back and look it up.
In any case I think it is a good idea to always be prepared with alternatives. I never go to a meeting at work with a complaint about something without first having pondered a possible solution or alternatives and I don't think it would be good to approach the city any differently. Praising people often helps to get what you want, so if anyone can say, "Hey, I really like what you did at (insert project)! Can we do that here too?" that would be great.
Community Meeting
Long-Range Planning for the Chicago Park District Municipal Harbor System
Note: This meeting is not intended as a forum to address ongoing harbor management or maintenance issues. A separate meeting to address these issues will be announced and convened by Westrec (the Chicago Park District’s harbor manager) at a date and location to be determined.
The only reason they are broading this meeting is they figured out they are walking into a buzz saw.
From the same posting:
"Please come and offer your feedback on these ideas, and share any additional ideas of
your own!"
And I will.
aw, I just want to pinch your cheek
>"There are no plans"
Where have I heard this before?
Oh, yeah! The Loyola TIF!
Hugh,
Eeryone here knows what you are against. Noone seems to know what you are for. I don't know that I have ever read a single positive comment from you except when you call me cute which is a little creepy. I know you do that when you have lost an argument and I hope everyone else here realizes that too. The only reason that I bother to argue with you at all is because I want to encourage everyone in this community to participate and become engaged. You damn everything. Get over yourself or reveal your agenda. Please?
So you think the nice men from the Park District are coming to Rogers Park to hear your ideas? As if there is no history here? As if they don't know? As if the problem is they have not heard from us?
Too bad we can't meet in the GALE PARK FIELD HOUSE. This meeting might go differently for the boys from the Park District if we were meeting in the magnificent new community auditorium, that new construction smell, a mix of saw dust and varnish, filling our nostrals.
Again, Hugh, nothing but defeatist commentary.
> ... what you are for.
Michael, Michael, Michael.
Did you ever stop to think that maybe by taking the Park District up on their bizarrely-timed solicitation ...
"Please come ... and share any additional ideas of your own!"
... That you might inadverantly be doing a disservice to your neighbors? Did you ever wonder if maybe here in Rogers Park you might have some neighbors that have been trying to seek improvements from the Park District for decades? Do what you want, bro, of course you are free to say whatever you want, but first I hope you will please at least consider adding your voice to that of your neighbors. Call or write the Rogers Park Conservancy and ask them how you can help. The link is on every page of the hellhole, here it is again in case you missed it:
http://www.urbsinhorto.org
Some would prefer the Rogers Park Conservancy not exist. Some may try to hi-jack this thread on the marina, acting as if the real problem here is that the people of Rogers Park have never really sat down and thought about what they wanted and expressed it to the Park District. You are helping them. I assume it is not deliberate on your part.
Let's get back to the original post and get behind Anne and our neighbors:
"SAY NO to the LOYOLA MARINA! ... It's a big issue but our ultimate response is simple. NO."
I think the ideas I've posted are in line with the mission statement of the conservancy:
Heighten the awareness of current issues impacting our parks and beaches through communication and encouragement of citizen participation.
Advocate and sponsor initiatives to develop additional park spaces while vastly improving the utilization of current parks and beaches through provisioning for superior quality maintenance and care at all of these facilities.
Emphasize environmental sensitivity in protecting our lakefront and its tranquility while providing for substantial recreational space for all of our community residents.
Coordinate with other organizations to create strategic partnerships where we can mutually support each other's effort to improve our community through palatial parks and breathtaking beaches.
I still don't see that this project is necessarily a bad one. I am keeping an open mind and will listen to what folks have to say at the meeting.
Additionally, I believe that your statement about backing my neighbor's opinions is in reference to the referendum passed last year. That referendum was passed in response to another project entirely. I think each proposal deserves a fair hearing. I saw the plan for the project to be built across from the cemetery and I have to agree that it looked like a bad idea. In this case, I will listen to my neighbors and the CPD and try to make an informed decision. I will not simply say no because someone else tells me to.
…And Then Came Warren Park…What Comes Next?
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