No one wants to talk about it. The police department shuts down all discussion at the Beat 2431 CAPS meeting.
Rogers Park Community Council executive Cary Steinbuck gets mad when the subject is brought up and runs out the door.
Alderman Moore has his hands full saving the ducks and geese of the world. He doesn't have time for this small stuff.
It's Domestic Violence. It's the behind closed doors crime. It's the crime you hear through the apartment walls. It's the screams for help you hear through the windows.
In this case this noise was so loud, the son heard the cries for help from New York.
It's the crime the young children in the house fear most. We hear it happen, but we don't talk about it.
The fights start small. Little things like not helping with chores. Or it could be big. The lose of a job.
What do we do, keep quiet like Ms. Steinbuck at Rogers Park Community Council? No, we are not going to do that. Or are we?
This has been around the GLBT community forever, it's time we use this message for domestic violence issues. Maybe our leaders will do something before it too late and this happens again?
I propose we talk about this issue, spread the word or Silence = Death
55 comments:
Blaming Steinbuck and Moore for this woman's death is ludicrous. Have you no morals? Will you do anything to discredit the Alderman and DevCorp? You compromise your own credibility and value to the community with statements like this.
Nicki,
I do not condone domestic violence. I also do not condone using a tragic event as a springboard for one's own political agenda. Perhaps you would like to congratulate president Bush for his grand success of milking the tragic deaths of thousands of people on 9/11 for political gain?
Also, in answer to your question, I have indeed been beaten by someone who loved me and whom I loved in return. It took a long time to break off from such an abusive relationship. It took a long time to realize that even though the person was wonderful much of the time, it simply was not worth it when things got bad.
Finally, I do not know the pattern of abuse in this relationship and if the murder was something that could have been prevented. Often, desperate people will do things that are not at all what you would expect of them. I had a roommate who stole and sold my television set because he had a gambling problem. I never knew he ever made a bet until the day the I called the police. People can be good at concealing problems from others. If this man had become mentally unstable or had an alcohol or drug problem he may have deteriorated quite rapidly without the support of his family and acted out in a way that was wholly unexpected.
I have to agree with Michael here. I think it is more useful to hold people accountable for the actual job we have given them to do. I really don't see how this couple would have appeared on either Joe's or RPCC's radar. On the other hand, I think it is fair to expect our Alderman to take a leadership role in raising consciousness and finding remedies if it is a particular problem in the Ward. At this point, I really don't know anything about Joe's record on this, so I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt.
As for the CAPS meeting, I think domestic violence is a valid subject of discussion, but if you simply start blaming the police for not preventing this particular crime, it's not surprising that they wanted to shut the conversation down. I don't think it is a secret that domestic violence is a very thorny problem for the police. However, I do wish that the officers that attend the CAPs meetings were more resilient in the face of community criticism.
Who blamed Moore or Steinbuck for anything?
Who said anything about DevCorp North?
I think all Craig said was there was something he wanted to talk about.
Thanks for explaining to us what Craig's blog is for.
Do you have your won blog? Please show us how to do it right.
The internet is a big place, really big. Why must you post here with everything you think Craig is doing wrong? You are missing a key aspect of the nature of online posting: long before you trash someone else's efforts, do your own thing. It's easier. Lots of people dumber than you are doing it.
If you have a better way, folks will flock to your site.
Do you need help? Anyone of us would be happy to sit with you at your computer and walk you through setting up your own blog. Just ask!
I believe when Craig writes, "Maybe our leaders will do something before it too late and this happens again?", the implication is that community leaders were responsible. He also mentions the Police, Joe Moore, and Cary Steinbuck as not wanting to talk about the incident which implies they are guilty of something.
Very well, let's talk about the issue. Most people have had experiences with or know someone who has been a victim of domestic violence. Because laws regarding this issue have historically been hard to enforce and because of constitutional rights issues surrounding the right to privacy making it dificult for groups to take action on behalf of victims, the offenders go free without much punishment or perhaps even simple counseling. Often embarassment, depression, fear, and even denial play a role in isolating the victim, trapping them in a vicious cycle which all too often escalates to horrible tragedies such as this.
I do not know if any of this applies to this victim. He may have simply snapped. Also, I do not believe he had a gun. He stabbed his wife and was shot by the police.
I almost forgot to answer your other question Sally. You asked:
"Why are the police shooting down Craig at CAPS meetings for bringing this issue up?"
I was unable to attend the CAPS meeting (I wish they would have them on weekends from time to time) but others have commented on this blog and elsewhere that Craig has been confrontational in the past at such meetings and brings things up when other issues are already being discussed. Is this the case here? Anyone? Does he have the right to sound off at a public meeting? Of course he does. But if someone were to print outlandish accustions about me on a regular basis, I would probably start handing them mean notes as well.
> Why doesn't Alderman Moore draw up strict laws to keep the abuser far away.
It is unclear to me the extent to which Alderpersons are empowered to do this. Perhaps someone from Chicago can clue me in. Anyway, as Michael K pointed out, owning a gun without a permit was the least of it and enforcement of laws which regulate where a person can or can't go before they commit a more serious crime are difficult to enforce at best.
I would like to add something to Thomas' comment about Sweet Celebrations on Morse. Perhaps it is true that the owners original business plan was to have this location be open on a seasonal basis. However, they have been closed a lot during the summer too. It was a very simple matter to write to the owner and find out why - I did this and got a very detailed response the very next day. I think what the owner actually had to say is a much more compelling story than the one that Craig posted. However, Craig's provocation did lead to a general discussion and eventual discovery of the owners own story.
I agree that Craig would have a lot more credibility if he did this kind of legwork himself, but there is nothing to prevent the rest of us from doing it ourselves and then posting it.
Nico's mom,
I believe that laws regarding restraining orders and their enforcement are handled by the state. Though he could work with our state reps to create a new bill, he is not necessarily compelled to in his office as he is charged with handling local legislation.
You'll find a plethora of information about domestic violence on this site:
http://www.ilcadv.org/legal/oop_faq.htm#faq
Nico's Mom: "However, I do wish that the officers that attend the CAPs meetings were more resilient in the face of community criticism."
I am with you on that one- can't people have a bit more sense of humour? The police look bad when they strong arm Craig so much.
I didn't take the post as literally blaming Joe and Cary. I read some of this as tongue in cheek and not to be taken literally. If the Alderman and Cary and others would take it that way, it wouldn't be so easy for Craig to look like he is pushing their buttons, which he seems to be pretty easily.
Craig- are your ears burning enough now?
A few other things that just occurred to me in reference to Sally's earlier question ("Why are the police shooting down Craig at CAPS meetings for bringing this issue up?") that should have seemed obvious. Could it be that people at the meeting (even those hosting) might have known the deceased and it was deemed inappropriate to bring it up. Also, there is a murder investigation in progress and perhaps it was too soon for the police to make a statement.
Tell us Tom, how many beat 2431 meetings have you been to in the last 5 years?
How many beat 2423 ( your beat by the way, not 2431 ) meetings have you been to in the last 5 years?
Thanks for your full-of-shit theory anyhow.
Here is my theory. The police shoot me down because they don't want to hear or tell the truth! That's why.
Tom, show us facts on how Rogers Park Community Council prevents and mitigates domestic violence in Rogers Park. Please give actual case studies. Have they ever secured a safe house for vicims?
By the way, thanks for answering Cary's question for her. Are you representing her now as her lawyer?
I know she must still be shaken up by the whole ordeal?
Personally, I think Kenny G is a sign of the decline of Western Civilization, but I don't post on kennygisgod.blogspot.com.
The blogoshere is a big place, really big. It's a big tent. There's room for everyone.
How to Know When It's Time go Get Yer Own Blog
If you are about to make a post on someone else's blog, and you notice that your post has nothing to contribute to the current topic, and all your post does is question the very existence of the thread or blog itself or its owner...
Pause. Reflect. Stop. It's time! Here's how
Create a blog in 3 easy steps
It's easy. It's free! You can do it! Share your great thoughts with the world.
The joke is everyone in Rogers Park has their own blog. That's not quite true, yet, but it's something to be aspired to!
Tom,
Tell us about your community involvement other than having dinner with the Alderman.
How many court advocacy cases did you attend regarding the Herron Brothers the last 12 months?
How many marches/vigils did you show support for your neighbors during last year, not including the national issue regarding Cindy Sheenen, the protester? We are talking local issues.
Did you attend the first Block/Mendena meeting at the Aldermans office?
Take a look at the latest issue of the Rogers Park Community Council's newspaper, Rogers Park 2000, Volume 10, issue 3, Fall, 2005, available throughout the neighborhood, you can't go far without tripping over a pile.
Page 1:
National Domestic Violence Awareness Month
What does it mean in Rogers Park?
Victim Advocacy Support Program Helps Turn Lives Around
If Sally Can Do It, So Can You
Page 2:
Friends of Battered Women Changes Name to Between Friends
Program Serves Women, Childrens and Teens
Page 3:
Facts About Elder Abuse
How to Report It - Where to Find Help
Pages 5 - 7:
Youth and Domestic Violence
Take a look at the Rogers Park Community Council's Annual Report.
Their 2004 annual report appears in the December, 2004 issue of Rogers Park 2000. The annual report has a very high-level overview of the Rogers Park Community Council's income and expenditures.
According to the Rogers Park Community Council's annual report, 26% of their expenditures are for "Victim Advocacy."
The Rogers Park Community Council's funder include:
STATE OF ILLINOIS
Attorney General – Violent Crime Victims Assistance Program
Illinois Criminal Justice Information Authority – Victims of Crime Act
CITY OF CHICAGO
Department of Human Services
Department of Aging
Department of Youth & Children
According to the Rogers Park Community Council's annual report, 78% of their income is public money.
A tragedy that family saw coming
Son tries to fend off dad to save dying mother
By David Heinzmann and Andrew Wang, Tribune staff reporters, Published October 18, 2005
...The bloody scene, which was witnessed by several neighbors, ended a week of trouble for the Jones family. Bonnie Jones called 911 at 10 p.m. on Oct. 10 after her husband punched her in the face, bloodying her nose and giving her a black eye, according to police.
As police were questioning Howard Jones at the apartment, his wife told them "he is gun crazy, he has a gun in the house." She allowed them to search, and officers found a loaded .357-magnum revolver between the mattresses of the bed, according to the police report.
The next day in court, Howard Jones pleaded guilty and was referred for a mental health evaluation. The judge also granted an order of protection prohibiting him from going to the apartment or having any contact with Bonnie Jones.
How many cases did Rogers Park Community Council handle in that year period? Recorded.
How much money did they actually receive? Not percentage.
How much did each case cost to handle? ( money received to cases handled. )
How many case victims were abused after the intervention? Any follow up?
Did the Chicago Police department call Rogers Park Community Council on every domestic violence case dealt with during that period? Seems taking city grants ought to allow you to work with city departments, hand in hand.
How many calls were actually arrested?
How many domestic violence calls were reported from the Rogers Park Community Council during that period? Arrests and non arrests? Even non arrests should have intervention. It's called prevent. Sorry to think outside the box.
These are the questions that need to be answered at CAPS meetings but aren't, so I'm asking here.
>I think it is more useful to hold people accountable ...
There are some legitimate issues of accountability here. (Please note that this is distinct from blaming.) What can we learn?
Was RPCC VASP notified? Were they involved? Is there a mechanism for VASP to be automatically notified of relevant police reports or court orders?
A son escourted a mother to their home. Might VASP have recommended an advocate or a police officer accompany them?
> ... RPCC programs for DV ...
I'd like to learn more about these programs.
One question I have is about integration of the program with local law enforcement.
The article "Victim Advocacy Support Program Helps Turn Lives Around; If Sally Can Do It, So Can You" on the front page of the RPCC's newspaper reads:
"A few days after making a police report, Sally got a call from ... a court advocate with the Victim Advocacy Support Program (VASP) at Rogers Park Community Council."
Did Bonnie get her call from Rogers Park Community Council VASP last week?
Tom says, > "Cary Steinbuck is on it. We know this because RPCC puts together DV programs".
How does Tom Westgard know this?
Tom said, >" I have no idea if VASP called this woman"
Her name is Bonnie Jones.
Oh, sorry, Tom, from the way you were posting about RPCC's DV programs, I thought you knew something about them. My mistake.
Tom said > "RPCC does more to prevent and mitigate DV than practically anyone or anything else in the neighborhood.
Please, Tom enlighten us on how you got this information.
Tom said, "Cary Steinbuck is on it."
Tell us what is Cary Steinbuck on Tom?
What accusations?
Who is attacking you?
Attorney Westgard cross-examines... > " I am asking you to substantiate those accusations
Hugh reports .... > "According to the Rogers Park Community Council's annual report, 26% of their expenditures are for "Victim Advocacy."
Rogers Park got paid well for providing Victim Advocacy services. Did Bonnie Jones get her call from Rogers Park Community Council VASP last week?
And Cary Steinbuck has the nerve to give out Shining Star Awards. That's like receiving the Kiss of Death.
Hugh reports....> According to the Rogers Park Community Council's annual report, 78% of their income is public money.
Attorney Westgard cries foul....> you have attacked Cary Steinbuck without good cause.
Hugh asks.....> Was RPCC VASP notified? Were they involved? Is there a mechanism for VASP to be automatically notified of relevant police reports or court orders?
Attorney Westgard changes his stratagy and rapidly fires back......> "Fools. Vicious, mindless, destructive, loudmouth fools."
Attorney Westgard cross examings again. This time with force......> " Any belligerent jerk can post a bunch of questions"
Your Honor, Attorney Westgard is simply badgering the witness.
OK let's get back to the question at hand. Did Bonnie Jones get her call from Rogers Park Community Council VASP last week?
Hugh points out....> The Rogers Park Community Council RP2000 article "Victim Advocacy Support Program Helps Turn Lives Around; If Sally Can Do It, So Can You" on the front page of the RPCC's newspaper reads:
"A few days after making a police report, Sally got a call from ... a court advocate with the Victim Advocacy Support Program (VASP) at Rogers Park Community Council."
Tom once said.... > "RPCC does more to prevent and mitigate DV
Then Tom says this.....> I don't see that RPCC took on that duty.....
Which is it Tom? Did Bonnie Jones get her call from Rogers Park Community Council VASP last week?
what accusaton?
I know I come to this thread late in the game but after reading through everyone's comments, I noticed that no one talked about what kind of programs could be established to help the abusers. Many abusers have been abused themselves and continue to perpetuate the cycle of abuse. This is what they know.
If there were programs to help these people, perhaps there would be less killing.
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