A few days ago I mentioned a business that closed shop on Morse Avenue. Over the week new developments have occurred. The Taqueria-Entre-Amigos taco joint at 1343 West Morse split the scene owing the water department $805.23.
"if young immigrant families didn't take a risk on opening businesses in rogers park, we wouldn't have any businesses in rogers park" this is the most accurate description to date of devcorps' effectiveness as a business development agency. your honesty is appreciated.
TW - you are bringing us dangerously close to a Godwin's Law scenario...careful there, buddy...
I don't want to put words in his mouth, but perhaps Gary was just pointing out that grimy taco joints teetering on the edge of insolvency are already a well represented retail sector in RP, and perhaps a little retail diversity is in order. My interpretation of Devcorp's mission is that they will work to attract adequately capitalized, properly managed businesses which will provide quality products and services to a wide customer base and perhaps even provide legal jobs to qualified people who live here and also to provide technical assistance to the small businesses that are already here, so that they have a chance to succeed. Whether or not these businesses happen to be run by "young immigrant families" or not seems to me to be completely beside the point, and frankly, it's a bit of a trite tactic to invoke that image. The retail businesses of RP are not charities - they need to succeed or fail on their own merits, but I see nothing wrong with having a chamber of commerce (or even a chamber of commerce-ish) around to provide appropriate help. Now, is that what DevCorp is supposed to do, or isn't it?
We know several people who work for Whole Foods, both at corporate in Austin and also in stores here. It's not a union nirvana, but it seems to be a pretty fair place to work from what they tell us.
Personally, I'm not crazy about "whole paycheck", but think about it, they charge $3.00 a lb. for potatoes. If that's not sticking it to "yuppie scum", I don't know what is. The "radicals" of RP should welcome it with open arms just for that alone!
i am gary from 24/7 thank you. if the storefronts on howard street were filled with every type of ethnic restaurant and service business, there would be practically nothing for me to write about. i would be too busy walking up and down the street sampling all the food, introducing myself to all the owners and supporting my local businesses.if i wanted an homogenized shopping district and were afraid of anything ethnic, i would live in schaumberg. but i live in rogers park, purposely.
an example of succesful ethnic businesses which i admire, would be the thriving commercial district along clark from devon to rogers and this is a result of the free market. devcorp had nothing to do with this phenomenon. it was created by supply and demand. it works. i know because i used to live there and would frequent those shops often.
my point was, if most if not all of these ethnic businesses are succesful independent of devcorp initiatives, and as you say tw "we wouldn't have any businesses in rogers park if it weren't for the ethnic families taking a risk" what has devcorp done to develope business anywhere else in our ward?
i think a strong case can be made that they have not done as well as other community dev. agencies have in other wards.
you started the new year with a commitment to being more constructive by staying on topic and less divisive by staying above the belt in your comments. i believe the term "attackblog' was penned by you to describe commentary that was personally critical and did not contribute to solving the problems in our community. i have to admit, i was impressed when there was a sincere follow through on this new philosophy over the last few weeks. your comments on hellhole have been understanding and facilitative to the overall discussions you were involved in.
unfortunately, this has all come to a screaching halt today. i am not going to reprint all of the offensive words and sentences for you. take a few minutes tonight and start with your first post and work your way down and contrast your vocabulary, your intent and your attitude and reconcile today's comments with your "new philosophy". if you are truthful with youself, it shouldn't be difficult to spot the inconsistencies.
when i posted my comments today, i specifically did not address the comment to you nor did i criticize you in any way. i questioned devcorp. read your response to me. did i really deserve that angry, off topic and racist insinuated rant based on my comment? aren't you now creating divisivness and havn't you been doing that all day? are your comments helping our community solve it's problems by offering constructive solutions?
thomas, you are obviously an intelligent man and whether you are a self appointed spokesperson for joe and devcorp or a hired one, you should be doing a much better job of articulating yours and their position and teaching us all something in the process.
i had a weeklong philosphical sparring session with james a few months ago and even though we had little in common at the outset, we never once resorted to any of the vocabulary or intolerance you displayed today. you have an important place in these discussions if you would only realize it.
Paradise, you are right about Lakeview and you are right about why retail avoids this area. We lived in Lakeview for several years, and we knew lots of people who had average joe jobs, or were students. I'd actually be surprised if the average annual income in Lakeview were as high as 40K. I also agree that there is sufficient wealth in RP and environs to support a much more diverse retail base. At this point I can only conclude that a: the message about this demographic is not getting out properly and/or b: retail and services don't want to come where their capital investment, workers and potential customers won't be, or equally important, don't feel safe. Joe likes to complain that it's a perception problem about crime up here, but he never talks about what concrete steps he's taking to change that perception, and that's something that needs doing in addition to taking care of actual crime. Personally I feel that handling this "perception problem" should be DevCorps purview, as it's essentially a marketing problem. Lots of towns and cities do this and it's generally the job of a combination of local government and local chamber of commerce to make sure that the identity of the town communicates what's best about it to the rest of the world. What's DevCorps RP identity makeover plan? Do they even have one?
This evening I gave a ride home to a colleague who lives in Andersonville. Right there on Clark Street, the big, new, open at 7 pm, Sweet Occasions store. Remember? The candy store that was never open on Morse? The catalog of harassment that owner and his staff endured on Morse street was beyond belief. There are many other stories like that from other decent small businesses that left as well. If DevCorp and the pols were really interested, they could do not better then to ask these people, "why did you leave"? But really, it's a no brainer. Which leads me to the conclusion that there are lots of people who simply don't agree with developing retail in the way that you and I and lots of others would like to see happen. And for whatever reason, Joe and Co. are more dedicated to serving their agenda than ours. I look forward to hearing Joe explain why during the next election cycle.
So, TW, it's really not a question of offering helpful suggestions to DevCorp is it? Not that I'm inclined to babysit them, and they don't really want my suggestions anyway. I have brought concerns directly to their attention in the past. I had a rather long correspondence with Joe's office about the appropriateness of spending 4M bucks on lights and planters on Morse, when they could point to no method whatsoever of demonstrating, either before or after implementation, that this would have any impact on positive retail development at all. I told them that I thought there probably were some methods of regression analysis that would work, and I also suggested that there should be comparable case studies they could point to if their plan was a good one - believe it or not, RP is not THAT unique that such a thing would be impossible. If I could think of at least a couple of plausible suggestions after thinking about it for 10 minutes, then believe me, they've thought of it too. If they need professional assistance to figure out if the project is actually worth it, then how about spending the $15,000 power washer budget on some consulting with someone who actually understands how to do outcomes analysis. I mean, for god's sake, do they actually need "community input" to think of that? Of course not.
Anyway, they signed up for the job and it's paying their bills, so I'll criticize them, second guess them and goad them on this blog all I want, and not feel even a twinge of guilt about it, because it's their job to do and they work for all of us. If they can't fulfill their mission and committment to this community then they ought to go away. Period.
Besides, they probably read this blog.
So, please, TW, feel free to co-manage DevCorp's grand master plan on your own dime if that floats your boat. I've got better things to do.
you both are so on point. paradise, your concept about starting a retail revitalization at devon and allowing the progress to move further north, makes all the sense in the world. but unfortunately, our leadership and this now includes the alderman, is content to allow a 400 slip, harbor project to be presented to the community that had we not rejected, would have turned devon into a construction thouroghfare for years, killing all hpoe for retail. there is no long range planning, period. i have been writing about this ad nauseum and it is so incredibly frustrating to look at the studies that i have been given and realize how much information and research has been squandered.
with the recent condo conversions that have taken place accross our ward, there is a corresponding increase in expectations that are not being recognized by our elected leadership. there is enough middle ground between the ghetto aka NOH and the gold coast for us to all to live decently.
tw writes- "if young immigrant families didn't take a risk on opening businesses in rogers park, we wouldn't have any businesses in rogers park"
gf responds- "this is the most accurate description to date of devcorps effectivness as a business development agency. your honesty is appreciated"
your paraphrase included the word "quality" and your whole argument is based on a word that i did not use and as such, completely skews the intent of my statement.
of course, this worthless argument, as so many others could go on forever but it will not. i tried one last time to engage you in constructive dialogue only to be misquoted and recklessly villified as a racist. this endless cycle of shouting fire in the theater at any perceived racial slight must end.
thomas, if your mission is to find racism, intended or not, under every rock and microscopically examine every undotted i and uncrossed t for "racial insensitivity, you will be blessed with lifetime employment. as someone who sees EVERYTHING in racial terms, it isn't hard to find subject matter.if your intention is to frighten us into silence with the racism tag, you have failed and you will continue to fail.
while you have been spending hours and hours every day in front of your keyboard in your quest, you have failed to notice that the world has passed you by. everyone here and at 24/7, has moved the once taboo subject of racial issues from the closet to center stage because these issues can no longer be ignored. your mantra is a leftover relic of the past and as a political tactic, was succesful in stifling responsible questions and discussions. we are past that now.
as responsible adults, private citizens and non professional writers, i hope we can all accept that in the midst of our discussions, some unintentional misuse of a word might occur. from what i have read on this and 24/7 blog comments, non of us are racists and incidental slights if they occur, are a small, but necessary price to pay to continue the process of constructive, honest dialogue.
the world will not come to an end and years of bridge building will not collapse as a result. i doubt any of us individually, have that kind of power.
tw, we understand your point but if you can't move away from the past then you need to move out of the way. you have become nothing more than a roadblock to progress.
we have important work to do here and at 24/7 and i'm not sure we have time for our discussions to be hijacked only to circle around the same subject matter over and over again. i know i don't.
I personally believe that Taqueria Entre Amigos was not a quality business. The fact of it's lack of quality may have had a hand in it's demise, or may not have - no one knows for sure why they closed except the owners. I recognize that there are people out there who will disagree with my assessment, which is, admittedly, subjective. Perhaps Taqueria Entre Amigos was your favorite restaurant. If so, you are in luck, since apparently there is another one in the neighborhood. My assessment of this business has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the owners, which I actually know nothing about, and care nothing about. It could have been owned by Armenians for all I know. I also know that there are quite a few well run, pleasant latin american cuisine restaurants in this neighborhood, which I am very happy to visit.
I understand very well that there may be challenges to certain historically oppressed populations when it comes to opportunities to succeed in small business. As I have said earlier, I am all for community organizations that can effectively assist small business owners overcome obstacles like access to capital, for example. I think that's what DevCorp should be doing, among other things, but I am not going to write that plan for them - if they are directing this organization, they should already know how to do this effectively.
But if I also would like to see more diversity of business that does not make me a racist, just like seeing some things develop in RP that I personally would enjoy (evil, evil self interest) doesn't make me a republican, anti-poor or any of that stuff you accuse us of. Neither does it automatically follow that businesses set up to cater to lower income and/or immigrant populations and businesses that are designed to cater to middle class white women can't successfully co-exist.
A few days ago I mentioned a business that closed shop on Morse Avenue. Over the week new developments have occurred. The Taqueria-Entre-Amigos taco joint at 1343 West Morse split the scene owing the water department $805.23.
23 comments:
Thomas thinks Craig is an asshole.
Thats not news, either.
> I've made it my task to point that out.
What happened to researching Section 8 in Rogers Park and sharing what you learn?
"if young immigrant families didn't take a risk on opening businesses in rogers park, we wouldn't have any businesses in rogers park"
this is the most accurate description to date of devcorps' effectiveness as a business development agency. your honesty is appreciated.
TW - you are bringing us dangerously close to a Godwin's Law scenario...careful there, buddy...
I don't want to put words in his mouth, but perhaps Gary was just pointing out that grimy taco joints teetering on the edge of insolvency are already a well represented retail sector in RP, and perhaps a little retail diversity is in order. My interpretation of Devcorp's mission is that they will work to attract adequately capitalized, properly managed businesses which will provide quality products and services to a wide customer base and perhaps even provide legal jobs to qualified people who live here and also to provide technical assistance to the small businesses that are already here, so that they have a chance to succeed. Whether or not these businesses happen to be run by "young immigrant families" or not seems to me to be completely beside the point, and frankly, it's a bit of a trite tactic to invoke that image. The retail businesses of RP are not charities - they need to succeed or fail on their own merits, but I see nothing wrong with having a chamber of commerce (or even a chamber of commerce-ish) around to provide appropriate help. Now, is that what DevCorp is supposed to do, or isn't it?
By the way, Paradise, we'll appreciate any research you are willing to donate your time to. No explanations necessary.
We know several people who work for Whole Foods, both at corporate in Austin and also in stores here. It's not a union nirvana, but it seems to be a pretty fair place to work from what they tell us.
Personally, I'm not crazy about "whole paycheck", but think about it, they charge $3.00 a lb. for potatoes. If that's not sticking it to "yuppie scum", I don't know what is. The "radicals" of RP should welcome it with open arms just for that alone!
paradise-
i am gary from 24/7 thank you. if the storefronts on howard street were filled with every type of ethnic restaurant and service business, there would be practically nothing for me to write about. i would be too busy walking up and down the street sampling all the food, introducing myself to all the owners and supporting my local businesses.if i wanted an homogenized shopping district and were afraid of anything ethnic, i would live in schaumberg. but i live in rogers park, purposely.
an example of succesful ethnic businesses which i admire, would be
the thriving commercial district along clark from devon to rogers and this is a result of the free market. devcorp had nothing to do with this phenomenon. it was created by supply and demand. it works. i know because i used to live there and would frequent those shops often.
my point was, if most if not all of these ethnic businesses are succesful independent of devcorp initiatives, and as you say tw "we wouldn't have any businesses in rogers park if it weren't for the ethnic families taking a risk" what has devcorp done to develope business anywhere else in our ward?
i think a strong case can be made that they have not done as well as other community dev. agencies have in other wards.
thomas westgard-
you started the new year with a commitment to being more constructive by staying on topic and less divisive by staying above the belt in your comments. i believe the term "attackblog' was penned by you to describe commentary that was personally critical and did not contribute to solving the problems in our community. i have to admit, i was impressed when there was a sincere follow through on this new philosophy over the last few weeks. your comments on hellhole have been understanding and facilitative to the overall discussions you were involved in.
unfortunately, this has all come to a screaching halt today. i am not going to reprint all of the offensive words and sentences for you. take a few minutes tonight and start with your first post and work your way down and contrast your vocabulary, your intent and your attitude and reconcile today's comments with your "new philosophy". if you are truthful with youself, it shouldn't be difficult to spot the inconsistencies.
when i posted my comments today, i specifically did not address the comment to you nor did i criticize you in any way. i questioned devcorp. read your response to me. did i really deserve that angry, off topic and racist insinuated rant based on my comment? aren't you now creating divisivness and havn't you been doing that all day? are your comments helping our community solve it's problems by offering constructive solutions?
thomas, you are obviously an intelligent man and whether you are a self appointed spokesperson for joe and devcorp or a hired one, you should be doing a much better job of articulating yours and their position and teaching us all something in the process.
i had a weeklong philosphical sparring session with james a few months ago and even though we had little in common at the outset, we never once resorted to any of the vocabulary or intolerance you displayed today. you have an important place in these discussions if you would only realize it.
Paradise, you are right about Lakeview and you are right about why retail avoids this area. We lived in Lakeview for several years, and we knew lots of people who had average joe jobs, or were students. I'd actually be surprised if the average annual income in Lakeview were as high as 40K. I also agree that there is sufficient wealth in RP and environs to support a much more diverse retail base. At this point I can only conclude that a: the message about this demographic is not getting out properly and/or b: retail and services don't want to come where their capital investment, workers and potential customers won't be, or equally important, don't feel safe. Joe likes to complain that it's a perception problem about crime up here, but he never talks about what concrete steps he's taking to change that perception, and that's something that needs doing in addition to taking care of actual crime. Personally I feel that handling this "perception problem" should be DevCorps purview, as it's essentially a marketing problem. Lots of towns and cities do this and it's generally the job of a combination of local government and local chamber of commerce to make sure that the identity of the town communicates what's best about it to the rest of the world. What's DevCorps RP identity makeover plan? Do they even have one?
This evening I gave a ride home to a colleague who lives in Andersonville. Right there on Clark Street, the big, new, open at 7 pm, Sweet Occasions store. Remember? The candy store that was never open on Morse? The catalog of harassment that owner and his staff endured on Morse street was beyond belief. There are many other stories like that from other decent small businesses that left as well. If DevCorp and the pols were really interested, they could do not better then to ask these people, "why did you leave"? But really, it's a no brainer. Which leads me to the conclusion that there are lots of people who simply don't agree with developing retail in the way that you and I and lots of others would like to see happen. And for whatever reason, Joe and Co. are more dedicated to serving their agenda than ours. I look forward to hearing Joe explain why during the next election cycle.
So, TW, it's really not a question of offering helpful suggestions to DevCorp is it? Not that I'm inclined to babysit them, and they don't really want my suggestions anyway. I have brought concerns directly to their attention in the past. I had a rather long correspondence with Joe's office about the appropriateness of spending 4M bucks on lights and planters on Morse, when they could point to no method whatsoever of demonstrating, either before or after implementation, that this would have any impact on positive retail development at all. I told them that I thought there probably were some methods of regression analysis that would work, and I also suggested that there should be comparable case studies they could point to if their plan was a good one - believe it or not, RP is not THAT unique that such a thing would be impossible. If I could think of at least a couple of plausible suggestions after thinking about it for 10 minutes, then believe me, they've thought of it too. If they need professional assistance to figure out if the project is actually worth it, then how about spending the $15,000 power washer budget on some consulting with someone who actually understands how to do outcomes analysis. I mean, for god's sake, do they actually need "community input" to think of that? Of course not.
Anyway, they signed up for the job and it's paying their bills, so I'll criticize them, second guess them and goad them on this blog all I want, and not feel even a twinge of guilt about it, because it's their job to do and they work for all of us. If they can't fulfill their mission and committment to this community then they ought to go away. Period.
Besides, they probably read this blog.
So, please, TW, feel free to co-manage DevCorp's grand master plan on your own dime if that floats your boat. I've got better things to do.
paradise and nico's mom-
you both are so on point. paradise, your concept about starting a retail revitalization at devon and allowing the progress to move further north, makes all the sense in the world. but unfortunately, our leadership and this now includes the alderman, is content to allow a 400 slip, harbor project to be presented to the community that had we not rejected, would have turned devon into a construction thouroghfare for years, killing all hpoe for retail.
there is no long range planning, period. i have been writing about this ad nauseum and it is so incredibly frustrating to look at the studies that i have been given and realize how much information and research has been squandered.
with the recent condo conversions that have taken place accross our ward, there is a corresponding increase in expectations that are not being recognized by our elected leadership. there is enough middle ground between the ghetto aka NOH and the gold coast for us to all to live decently.
we need to voice that expectation.
tw writes-
"if young immigrant families didn't take a risk on opening businesses in rogers park, we wouldn't have any businesses in rogers park"
gf responds-
"this is the most accurate description to date of devcorps effectivness as a business development agency. your honesty is appreciated"
your paraphrase included the word "quality" and your whole argument is based on a word that i did not use and as such, completely skews the intent of my statement.
of course, this worthless argument, as so many others could go on forever but it will not. i tried one last time to engage you in constructive dialogue only to be misquoted and recklessly villified as a racist. this endless cycle of shouting fire in the theater at any perceived racial slight must end.
thomas, if your mission is to find racism, intended or not, under every rock and microscopically examine every undotted i and uncrossed t for "racial insensitivity, you will be blessed with lifetime employment. as someone who sees EVERYTHING in racial terms, it isn't hard to find subject matter.if your intention is to frighten us into silence with the racism tag, you have failed and you will continue to fail.
while you have been spending hours and hours every day in front of your keyboard in your quest, you have failed to notice that the world has passed you by. everyone here and at 24/7, has moved the once taboo subject of racial issues from the closet to center stage because these issues can no longer be ignored. your mantra is a leftover relic of the past and as a political tactic, was succesful in stifling responsible questions and discussions. we are past that now.
as responsible adults, private citizens and non professional writers, i hope we can all accept that in the midst of our discussions, some unintentional misuse of a word might occur. from what i have read on this and 24/7 blog comments, non of us are racists and incidental slights if they occur, are a small, but necessary price to pay to continue the process of constructive, honest dialogue.
the world will not come to an end and years of bridge building will not collapse as a result. i doubt any of us individually, have that kind of power.
tw, we understand your point but if you can't move away from the past then you need to move out of the way. you have become nothing more than a roadblock to progress.
we have important work to do here and at 24/7 and i'm not sure we have time for our discussions to be hijacked only to circle around the same subject matter over and over again. i know i don't.
I personally believe that Taqueria Entre Amigos was not a quality business. The fact of it's lack of quality may have had a hand in it's demise, or may not have - no one knows for sure why they closed except the owners. I recognize that there are people out there who will disagree with my assessment, which is, admittedly, subjective. Perhaps Taqueria Entre Amigos was your favorite restaurant. If so, you are in luck, since apparently there is another one in the neighborhood. My assessment of this business has nothing to do with the ethnicity of the owners, which I actually know nothing about, and care nothing about. It could have been owned by Armenians for all I know. I also know that there are quite a few well run, pleasant latin american cuisine restaurants in this neighborhood, which I am very happy to visit.
I understand very well that there may be challenges to certain historically oppressed populations when it comes to opportunities to succeed in small business. As I have said earlier, I am all for community organizations that can effectively assist small business owners overcome obstacles like access to capital, for example. I think that's what DevCorp should be doing, among other things, but I am not going to write that plan for them - if they are directing this organization, they should already know how to do this effectively.
But if I also would like to see more diversity of business that does not make me a racist, just like seeing some things develop in RP that I personally would enjoy (evil, evil self interest) doesn't make me a republican, anti-poor or any of that stuff you accuse us of. Neither does it automatically follow that businesses set up to cater to lower income and/or immigrant populations and businesses that are designed to cater to middle class white women can't successfully co-exist.
Get a grip!
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