"We know for sure that Jay Johnson knew they had no electricity," said Steven Levin, the victims' attorney.
The Ramirez and the Ramos family are suing Alderman Moore's 49th ward zoning and land use committee member and frequent campaign contributor Jay Johnson and his management company for the deadly fire that killed six children earlier this month.. After day's of trying to cover for his slumlord pal, the Alderman decided to pull a political stunt, holding public hearings into the matter.
Channel 7
Chicago Tribune
Update #1:
"No one who played a part in this tragedy will go without scrutiny," attorney Steven Levin said.
Wow, I just got done watching Channel 9's excellent coverage. Wouldn't that be something if Alderman Moore was called to testify under oath about what he knew - and when? After all, his campaign contributing buddy Jay Johnson knew they didn't have electricity. That's what the lawyer for the families said tonight.
Who else knew. Howard Area Community Center. Did someone or someone(s) there know something? How about Gale School. Did a teacher know something? The tutor knew the kids were studying by candle-light. Did she tell anyone about this? So many people to potentially testify in this case. This will be a lot different than Alderman Moore's so-called public hearing.
Will Alderman Moore continue to lie and continue to cover up for slumlord pal Jay Johnson like he did in front of the television cameras earlier this month?
Update #2:
Hitting them all. Named in the suit filed in Cook County are Marshway Limited Partnership, Marshway, L.L.C., CIG Management, L.L.C. and Jay Johnson.
Update #3:
Commonwealth Edison also was named in the suit as a respondent.
Steven Levin said the family believed there was a mistake in the bill and said they had worked with social service agencies and the local alderman's office to resolve it.
But a ComEd spokesman said the amount owed on the bill would not have offset the shutoff, even if the family had resolved the dispute.
The million dollar question. Who told Com-Ed to shut off the power to a struggling family trying to make ends meet - with young children living inside?
33 comments:
Yes I am sure that piece os shit joe will lie, it is more important to have is buddies make money. joe ,jay, and joe puppet o'neil are all assholes. let's hope joe goes to jail that way we will get a new alderman. When the ward is at a bottom level it has no where to go but up!!
Unfortunately we now live in a world where there is no such thing as personal responsibility. Whatever happens, someone else is to blame.
Jay Johnson is a bad building owner. He's been bad for years. The death of these children is horrible. But I wish to hell that Craig would keep the focus on whether there were operable smoke detectors in place and knock off the "who knew they didn't have electricity and when did they know it?" NO building owner is responsible for people taking care of themselves. Where do we stop? Did the building owner know that they were eating a poor diet and when did he know it? Did the building owner know that his tenants didn't have proper boots for the winter, which caused them to slip and hit their head and die, and when did he know it?
You want a nanny state, Craig? Be careful what you wish for or all kinds of nasty rules and regs and laws will come into play. You want not only the state to be a buttinsky in everyone's personal life but your landlords and teachers and the electric company? You might do well to read Mr. Orwell.
We all wish to protect those who are unable to protect themselves but such must be balanced with the deleterious effects of what such "protection" brings to all.
Jay Johnson is a bad building owner and landlord. He had a responsibility to make sure that his tenants had working smoke detectors. His or anyone else's knowledge of the lack of electricity is beside the point.
Did anyone hear WGN 9pm news state that someone and the family was working with the 'alderman' to settle the electricity bill? If that statement was made, then the knowledge by Johnson/Moore/others that this family i.e. children were in an unsafe environment lends every reason to ask questions as to who know and when.
I was at both press conferences 2am and 7am and the fire department could NOT find any smoke detectors in the rubble or the apartment. The tenant beneath the Ramirez apartment did not wake to the sound of his smoke detector. His girlfriend woke him because she smelled smoke and Al Tillman was pounding on his door.
Paradise, unfortunately, no one has the right to limit family size except for the uproar in China with forced abortions.
However, there are single, unmarried, childless people who get behind in their utilities and/or rent. Their 'live in the moment' mentality sucks up the paycheck for SUV's, cell phones, and who knows what else. There's plenty of irresponsibility to go around. And where are our elected officials and why aren't they stopping rate hikes? They just give themselves a pay raise much higher than you and I will see for the next 3 years combined.
> why in the world is there no outrage over the man and woman who had NINE kids
cheer up, they're down to 4 now
more reasonable for ya?
ya happy?
darwinism?
Laura (Paradise) Louzader, acting as god, proclaimed ........>"we are going to have to FORCE people to limit their breeding...."
A couple of hours later laura flip-flops on the issue.
"We don't have the right to dictate people's family size.'
Which is it Laura? It's about time I expose your so-called Paradise you want us to live in. You are a very, very scary woman.
You pounce from one end of the spectrum to the other. Some day's with-in hours, like today.
Yet, one more example of why this other guy shouldn't be a leader. He is already brainwashing his followers with these rabid ideas of darwinism.
Now that you've been exposed, and may not post here anymore, well, that would be more than fine with me.
If you do post here again, please post which candidate you are supporting, allowing let the public to know which person best suits you and your ideas.
We've noticed that all the other spokspersons (Anne Sullivan and Michael Harrington) have most likely been advised to clam (keep quiet) on the Hell Hole.
Are you his newest spokesperson?
For some odd reasong I agree with Paradise...
The death of (6) kids was tragic, but who in there right minds produces (9) kids as a single mother. Many low income and minority families will have a multiply amount of kids in order to collect larger welfare checks. I am not in any means insinuating that this is the case. (but stated it so I probably am) Com ED did the correct thing. I am sure Com ED gave the family numerous warnings or payment plan options prior to shutting off the electricity. Com ED is a service provided and has the right to shut off power if someone neglects to make payments. If this family did not have electricity, I am sure they did not have a phone. How is Com Ed supposed to contact the family to work on payments? And if they did have a phone, they should have managed there necessities a little closer. I am not protecting Jay Johnson. I think he should pay for his actions, but not to the family. I hope Com ED does not pay a dollar to this family. They are going to receive enough from the court settlement and donations. I will be waiting for all the democrat/liberals to respond and bash me. What if you were put in the position? What would you do? Well I am not.
> If you do post here again, please post which candidate you are supporting, allowing let the public to know
so who are you supporting Craig?
let your public know
subsidized housing projects need fire occasionally
just like forests
cleans out the underbrush
it's natural
Hugh,
I think you have finally figured out what the Hell Hole is all about. This site has turned into a manipulating political advertisement. He is on the James and Thomas Bus.
Tom,
I am not pro Gordon. We would be surprised on who I am leaning towards. I am attacking them for having so many children that they can not provide for. I will not go out and get a dog knowing I can not feed it. Think about it Thomas, (9) kids.... I do pretty well for myself and I can not afford 9 kids. My girlfriend and I take all means necessary to make sure she does not get pregnant. We are not ready to have kids and I am responsible enough to realize that. Why have (9) kids if you can not afford to provide electric for your house? They are selfish people to have multiple numbers of kids and put them in a position like that. It is unfortunate what has happened but do not think they deserve charity.
Craig and Thomas,
You’re not looking too popular around here lately. Maybe you should both go back to what your good at... That is trying to make a difference in our neighborhood. Stop the propaganda. You’re not politicians and are just making fools of yourselves. Stop and think about what you guys are saying. Are you all in a room together thinking how you can manipulate your loyal readers? James you may want to reconsider your surroundings. I would like to give you my vote as well as many others, but you have to realize Thomas and Craig are only hurting your cause by blogging. I believe you have the passion and heart to really make a difference in Rogers Park. I do not think your followers have the same. “I mean, I attack people for their bad ideas.” (Posted by Thomas Westgard). How do you expect this guy to represent you as Alderman? I have many ideas (some bad, some good) but I do not want to get attacked over them by the new alderman. Joe does not do that to me. Maybe I am turning to Joe again. Better than getting attacked.
Our neighborhood has issues, yes, issues other than the elections!
Does every unit in Jay Johnson's two senior high rises on Morse & Wayne have working smokde detectors? Does anyone know?
O.K then, the Hell Holers have spoken.
Let's drop the lawsuit and let Alderman Moore's public hearing decide who's really at fault.
Craig, part of your last post was lost
the part where you let your public know who you support
I think that people have gotten quite passionate and angry due to the political underpinnings of the fire tragedy. Jay Johnson should be held accountable for sustaining substandard housing. It's not about a "nanny state" or the landlord being the father figure. It's about Johnson's record of collecting the check and not giving a shit how it gets into his hands. It was mentioned that he had tried to evict the family as one point. I don't think that some people realize the gargantuan task it is to keep pace in America if you are an immigrant or born into the underclass. Whether you are a minority or in the economic underclass you are behind the eight ball. Joe Moore should be accountable for allowing this person to be on his zoning board and obviously providing variances and passes on some stuff that is criminal.
As for the comments on how many children the Ramirez family had and how some of you take measures to not get pregnant etc.- whew! I didn't realize that my neighbors held such Darwinian views. There are some cultural factors at work here. The Ramirez family is Catholic and for old school Catholicism which is what they are- birth control is a sin. Some people still believe that children are God's gift and they are entitled to that belief. The Ramirez parents are employed and everyone that could get a job had one. I believe that parents should be able to support their children and should take measures to see that they are safe. This was a tragedy. Augusten and Amado Ramirez did not neglect their children by the act of giving birth to them. That is the tone that is going on here. I've read about this kind of thing. The culling the herd mentality and 'those people' squeezing out babies is what stocked places like Auschwitz and Dachau. The Ramirez family is entitled to some compensation to move on with their lives. The emotional damage and survivor guilt has yet to fully manifest. They are our neighbors and community.
As for Jim's surroundings, look at HIS record and positions on the issues. From my view, he has managed to stay above the fray of extremist views and attacks. No grandstanding or opportunism from this tragedy has come from Jim. Sometimes you cannot judge a person by the company that surrounds them.
"It's also not what Rogers Park is about."
Thomas, what is Rogers Park about?
1.) The Homeless
2.) Homeless Drug Addicts
3.) Homeless criminals
4.) Homeless Drug Addicts and criminals. (Go hand and hand)
How is James going to make Rogers Park so fine and dandy? I sure hope it does not have to do with any of your suggestions or actions. You have to learn that slamming bloggers who may have chosen to vote for Gordon is not the political way of going about things. You should respect your fellow residents equally as you and James basically proposes. Why are you so raciest against Don Gordon supporters? Be the bigger man and turn away. I am sure any Don Gordon supporters do not want to get attacked if James does win the election. Are you going to continue you bashing if this happens? If so, I do not want to be a part of putting James into office. Do not let your anger get to you despite how ignorant you really are. You are representing a "future" alderman. The more you blog the more everyone is realizing that you are a complete asshole. Like I said in my above posting; I most likely am going to vote for James but your making it hard for everyone. By the way, we can bash you…. We are not representing a “future” Alderman. So go fuck yourself Tom….
Is it her choice to provide electricity, food or bare necessities in order for them to live? Or should that be the kids’ problems? Either way Carol, great post. That got everyone thinking....
Westgard is not the author of what goes on in Jim's head. I am of the opinion that he should have a muzzle specially fitted for Mr. Westgard. This is the kind of crap that makes people turn away from politics and involvement with their communities. A certain amount of verbal jousting is healthy for a campaign. All of the candidates, their supporters, and detractors can get it out there and let the dust settle. It would be a shame for you to discount Jim's candidacy on the basis of Westgard's obsessive mental masturbation.
I took a look back at some of the archives of this blog and "Westie" was like this before the Ginderske candidacy.When you get the opportunity to express your views to Mr. Ginderske-it is a good bet that you will get Mr. Ginderske's views in return.I see Westgard's opinions as sometimes well intended but also rather self involved. That is also the nature of political campaigns when they become pissing contests. One guy brags that the water is cold and there's always some dork who has to say that it's deep too. Westgard is NOT the candidate and doesn't quite qualify as Karl Rove.
When I spoke of extremist views and attacks I was referring to some people saying that DCFS should be called in when people couldn't pay their electric bills. OR when homeless people are considered to be squatters. I was also referring to the incumbent's constant grandstanding at the expense of tragedy.
I thought someone else was Ginderske's campaign manager.
*****************************
My grandparents, who were also Mexican immigrants, raised 13 children on my grandfathers CTA salary. They were lucky to find 3 or 4 bedroom apartments on the North Side of Chicago. As each child got old enough to work, they did and the money went into the household pot. The older girls took care of the younger children. When i came along, they took care of me too.
I have the happiest, closest family you can imagine but they knew hardships. I agree that family planning is a personal responsibility but the Catholic faith is an enormous part of our culture and until the Pope says it's ok to ease up on the birth rate, the devout will put their trust in God.
To Quote Monty Python, ..."every sperm is sacred"
Some of you are totally missing the point. The dynamics that created, allowed and manifested certain 'bad landlords' in the NOH area are the main point and part of the problem. The history is decades old. There are some subidized apartments up here with tenants who pay NO rent. There are agencies here who are making money from 'sign in sheets' for simple things like blood pressure readings. They're competing with one another in the 'get the tax money game' and many of their services provide the roadmap to keeping the status quo alive and well. The roadmap to keeping the bad landlords because it's the 'affordable housing' banter and excuse to write $70K and more annual salaries for directors. The underpaid staffers do the real work. There are other agencies that promoted Johnson & his kind to promote the concept of affordable housing. It isn't about who's running for alderman or birth control. It's about the lack of aggressive social outreach from some of these groups that just might result in the transitioning out of these living conditions. Fear of being without a home has been instilled in the poor neighbors for years - it's the easy out and all agencies depend on aldermanic support whether or not they agree with him or even like him. Playing both sides of the fence ENABLES the recipients of tax funds and contributes to the continuation of ignorance by many neighbors who don't know that they have certain rights. The right to a safe home whether its from fire or gangbangers across the hall. It's the Orr/Moore/Hud triangle. Keep the damn buildings affordable but get rid of the bad management that looks the other way after the rent check is in their hand. Joe and the agencies could have done that years ago. Instead, Jay Johnson was 'embraced' and enabled as well as the others who are entrenched here...all in the name of 'caring for those less fortunate'. HUD hasn't been a very good watch dog over it's domain and a 'progressive liberal' would have created a watchdog group to actively monitor ALL the problems and complaints over the years. Look how long it took to get Higginson out of here and the Broadmoor still has its problems. Start at the top and work down.
The Ginderske Campaign Manager is listed on the website. Westgard is listed as Chairman. Maybe the manager told Westgard to "clam" and actually work FOR the candidate and focus on what will be good for the ward. I certainly hope so. All of this quibbling over title and semantics is tiresome. NO one is going to be happy all of the time. What goes around doesn't always come around on the desired time table. If it did then Joe Moore would have been back in the suburbs eight years ago when his true stripes started to show. All of this spite and divisiveness is what got us Moore of the same.
Does anyone know the immigration status of the Ramiez family members?
I ask, and believe it is relevent, because being in the U.S., and attempting to keep a low profile could directly impact a person's ability to find work, receive assistance and generally go about life in a way that would prevent such an event.
I've only been reading the MSM accounts, this is the first 'blog entry I've seen on this case so it may have been dealt with here.
Thanks Julie. I'll be visiting this 'blog and its comments section regularly.
Double Parked, Why do you assume that a newspaper wouldn't report on a person's immigration status, at least as far as whether they are in the country illegally?
The issue of illegal immigrants is certainly a topic in politics and social policy on a general level, and in this case, looks to be relevant down to the individuals and could very well weigh directly in the deaths of children.
It is only CPD's reluctance to release this information that prevents it being reported. In other cities, it isn't a big secret.
From just the past week's Chicago Tribune: Charges Filed in Colo. Dragging Death: "Immigration officials have said they believe Rubi-Nava is an illegal immigrant."
Trial to Begin in Deadly Rita Bus Fire: "The bus driver, Juan Robles, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, was cleared of charges in exchange for his cooperation. He was directed to stay in Texas as a material witness."
7 alleged gang members held, may be deported: "Seven men were arrested in Aurora Tuesday night, accused of being gang members and illegal immigrants from Mexico. All will face deportation, authorities said."
While the Chicago Police have a General Order prohibiting cooperation with ICE, as far as I know the media have no such policy. If I'm wrong, please point me to something to change my mind, I'd love to have something in writing that actually says what you claim. That would be great ammo for those of us who do suspect that political correctness has trumped truth and good reporting in the MSM.
So where did you get this idea anyway? It appears that getting half the news from the police has negative impacts beyond just leaving us ignorant: it causes people like you to think it is MSM policy.
P.S. Of course I didn't include the many stories in which being illegal was the gist of the story, such as the woman holed up in the church, the Trib sob series Throwaway Live or Ray Quintanilla's Migrant's Dry Season, in which he turns from a Staff Reporter into a defender, spokesman and liar for illegals. Obviously, the MSM uses the term illegal immigrant when they are apologizing for them. Actually, Ray still just calls them "immigrants." Talk about dishonesty and obfuscation.
That's a standard I don't think anyone would want to apply across the board to the news.
I'll leave it up to you to consider the consequences of your standard, when it isn't just applied in cases in which you've got a political or idealogical axe to grind.
Remember, the media can only print what they can "prove." Otherwise, according to you, it is slander (a legal term, BTW, if it is a newspaper, it is called libel. Libel is actionable. Most MSM legal departments don't allow libel for fear of civil action). No more quotes from witnesses, etc. No news until a jury rules on a case? What is your definition of "prove?"
Have you ever seen the discussion pages behind Wikipedia as they try to "prove" something? Do you want to wait 3 years for your news when there is a consensus on the "facts."
This would be a good time to apply Rawl's Veil of Ignorance. Too late now I guess, but just try to imagine this being applied to news you want to hear. I guess we should have waited for someone to "prove" that Rove was guilty in the Plame leak before the MSM went nuts and had him frog-walking into prison.
I don't really give a rat's ass whether the Ramierez family is legal or otherwise. However, let's be straight that immigrants have to regularly prove that they are documented. My husband has to show his green card and prove his legality on a regular basis -- like when he enters or exits the country, at the bank, when buying property, and so on. The burden of proof is on the immigrant to show that they are legal; not for anyone else to prove that they are not.
Unless, of course, someone means to imply that the rules are different for legal immigrants vs. illegal immigrants in which case my husband should go illegal, stop paying taxes, etc. because life would be easier for him, at least in terms of showing his docs.
Not a bad idea if you're Hispanic Pamela. Ask any cop in 024 what they do when they stop an obvious illegal who has no license, insurance, etc. They let them go, it's just too much trouble to do a TVB not to mention pissing off the desk Sgt.
Of course a white guy could never get away with it, but it'd be an interesting experiment to "live as an illegal" for awhile and see how much money you can save.
Funny aside, I'm watching Chicago Tonight and they are running a piece on overcrowding in Chicago public schools, esp. in Mexican communities. They say we need to spend millions to build more schools to relieve the overcrowding.
Funny that, how those who pay least in taxes are putting the greatest burden on our systems.
Don't forget to celebrate Hispanic Heritage month!
Not to hijack the comments here, but the story below contains relevant items: children pulled from a burning building; illegal immigrants; and the press citing a person's immigration status (illegal). Sure, a different set of circumstances, i.e., hero cop killed by a child molesting Mexican illegal.
Like Chicago, Houston is also city that welcomes law-breakers, forgers, frauds and tax-cheats with open arms and incentives.
Even after the murder of this police officer, the Mayor and police chief will still not enforce immigration violations in Houston. Shame on them.
Cop Killing Sparks Immigration Debate
Police Chief Blames Federal Government for Officer's Death
Sept. 25, 2006 — - The shooting of a Houston police officer has sparked a new battle over immigration.
Juan Leonardo Quintero, an illegal immigrant, has been charged with killing a Houston police officer last week after a routine traffic stop.
Police Chief Harold Hurtt blamed the federal government for failing to secure U.S. borders.
Quintero allegedly shot Officer Rodney Johnson four times in the head while in handcuffs in the back seat of his patrol car.
Johnson arrested Quintero during a routine traffic stop for speeding but apparently missed the suspect's gun in a pat-down search.
Following the shooting, a video showed Houston police officers pulling open the back doors of Johnson's patrol car and yanking the suspect out of the back seat.
"It's very easy to make a mistake. I am not saying a mistake was made," one Houston police officer said. "Unfortunately, we are in the business where a mistake can kill you."
The suspect should not have been in the United States.
Quintero was deported in 2004 after a conviction for indecency with a child.
"The subject was deported, and yet he came back, so if the government fulfilled their responsibility of protecting the border we would probably not be standing here today," Hurtt said.
The Houston Police Department has been struggling this year to deal with the influx of Katrina evacuees and an immigration problem that is only getting worse.
Border Patrol said thousands of illegal immigrants crossed into the United States each month.
Johnson received a commendation for valor for pulling several children from a burning building.
He leaves behind a wife who is also a police officer and their five children.
When this story first broke, it was my understanding that all of the children in the house were NOT siblings, but extended family. So, IN THAT CASE, the woman would not have had nine kids. Which would hurt like hell.
It is also my understanding that the family had attempted to apply for utility assistance but did not as it requires social security numbers and that that in itself is now controversial. How did they get an account with ComEd initially without one? Additionally, ComEd (who IS evil, no doubt) WILL make payment arrangements with customers in default and the ICC can be helpful. Was that help not sought?
Finally, it is my understanding that a landlord in Chicago is responsible for PROVIDING smoke detectors but not maintaining them. Hence, possibly the "bracket" in the unit. Which could have been broken or knocked off by the kids. It's curious that neighboring units had them. But what about hallways?
I am NOT defending this landlord who clearly has a lousy track record and sleeps with The Beast Moore. What I'm also not seeing anywhere is that he HAD to have also known the number of people living in the apartment which is against ordinance in itself. Is there a level of responsibility there?
So there are many, many unanswered questions, none of which diminish this tragic loss. But maybe answers found will avoid future tragedies.
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