Boundaries are the North side of Lunt to the South side of Jarvis, the Lake to the East side of Clark.
Eleven (11) residents including a representative from Field School were present. No one from the Alderman's office was in attendance.
From February '07.
Alley lights on 1600 block of Estes were fixed the next day.
Light fixtures being broken in alley of 1600 block of Estes by kids have stopped, possibly due to weather and a talk with the kids by the property owner.
Kids hanging out at the corner of Estes and Glenwood, in front of the corner store, sitting on cars are still out there.
The amount of activity when open gym ends at Loyola Park at 9 pm is still an issue. Several things were discussed:
- Having other outlets for the kids to play at, like the Gale Community Center (a community liason chuckled as to when this will be finished)
- Having the Park Car (a CPD car that visits all the parks) there when open gym lets out. It was there the other night and officers said that they moved a group of people who were hanging around.
- Inviting the Park Police to our next CAPS meeting. One interesting note is the number of police the Park District has. There are 10 officers (five two-man teams) with just 2 Parks Police cars (plus 3 yellow trucks) to patrol the territory ranging east of Harlem to the lake and north of Madison to Howard. Yeah, that's a lot of territory.
This issue plus others involving kids really don't appear to be a police issue to me, rather an issue of kids with not enough places to go and things to do afterschool. However, it falls into the laps of the police because the children/young adults of Rogers Park have no place else to go, so of course their gatherings are large.
New 2423 Business
The summer street sweeping schedule has started (April 1st) on Glenwood yet no tickets have been issued yet for people who don't move their cars on the Monday (west side) or Tuesday (east side) from 7-9am. The police are now aware of this, so if you haven't been moving your car please do so.
Open Air Drug Markets
Drug dealing on the corner of West Estes and North Glenwood in front of the corner store was brought up. They have lookouts down the street on Touhy, Sheridan and Greenleaf. If you see anything please call the police.
The open air drug market on West Greenleaf (1373-1383) and North Glenwood (7023-7033) was mentioned again. People double park in front of the building and honk or run up into the building. Kids and dealers cut through the laundromat and head into the back alleys and gangways. The police have asked for a key so that they can enter back there but as of yet, not received one. At the last premises inspection police noted that 2 of the 3 doors had broken locks, the locks were then replaced but the property manager complained that the locks kept getting broken. This building is owned by Dubin of Dubin does the town. There are numerous complaints about this building both at CAPS and to the Alderman, but Dubin and Company always seem to get a band-aid on their building in time and get off the hook. The police acknowledge that he plays the game very well. Why does this building continue to be an issue if we know the game is being played?
The next meeting is 7pm Wednesday, May 16th at the Trilogy Center 1400 W. Estes Ave. on the 4th floor. Please join us.
Thanks for reading,
Chris Miller
35 comments:
Huh. Whaddya know. Open air drug market run out of a building whose owner funded Moore's re-election. Probably just a coincidence.
1373-1385 W Greenleaf
SE corner Greenleaf & Glenwood
68 unit red brick courtyard building
owned since 2003 by
GREENLEAF RENTALS LLC
4252 N CICERO
CHICAGO 60641
Dubin & Associates, Inc.
4252 N. Cicero
Chicago, IL 60641
Tel 773.427.2400
Fax 773.427.2412
To Citizens for Joe Moore
$500.00 2/10/2006
$500.00 11/30/2006
$500.00 11/30/2006
It gets murkier. I've started digging and my findings show six active assumed names for the owner of the Greenleaf Rentals LLC and CT Corporations Systems.
Mr. Eugene Landoe from NYC, NY is the President.
Bruce Lenz from Riverwood is the secretary.
Wayne Gripman from Lincolnwood is the listed taxpayer of the building.
James Haplin, 208 South Lasalle is the agent.
Another slumlord who loves to give money to Joe Moore for him to turn his back on major housing and crime problems in our community.
That's why I don't support Joe Moore. He's soft on crime and weak on quality housing for renters, all in one property in CAPS beat 2423.
Any response from the 49th ward ZULACer's who read this site loyally?
Assumed Names:
INACTIVE - CCH TRADEMARK RESEARCH
INACTIVE - TRADEMARK RESEARCH
ACTIVE - UCC DIRECT SERVICES
ACTIVE - CCH CORSEARCH
ACTIVE - CT CORPORATION
ACTIVE - C T SUMMATION
ACTIVE - C T CORSEARCH
ACTIVE - UCC DIRECT
I've been training at the boxing gym at the Loyola Park fieldhouse for several years. Groups of people hanging out and causing trouble -- both kids and adults -- have long been a problem down there. It is not uncommon, especially during the summer, for fights to break out in the front of the building. Even in the winter time, nonsense happens. The coach and I were pelted with snowballs a few months back by a group of kids were pitching them at any and everybody who was leaving the building that evening.
My church has a youth group, but it struggles to have adequate attendance. Why? Apathy is a big problem, and it's not always the kids and teens -- it's some of the parents who will not seek out such programs, and encourage their kids to take part in positive, productive activities. These same folks will turn around and complain there is nothing for their kids to do, when it's been right there the whole time.
I also realize that money is a factor too, especially for working families with more than one child who may want to participate in a youth activity. Transportation plays into it, as well. Schlepping around everywhere on CTA is not easy, and everyone can't afford a car to get their kids to and from activities.
CT Corp and UCC Direct are corporate services companies. They will serve as your agent for process serving and corporate filings. They have an office at 208 S LaSalle and I would gather that James is an employee there.
Good or bad, they only provide their stated services. They don't get into your ethics.
Oh Hugh, it's so nice to see you back. Must of been fired from your job.
Top 10 ways Joe will improve his performance during the next 4 years.
1) Will join son Nathan at GED classes and get his degree too.
2) Will prevent condo conversions by sleeping in hallways every chance he can get.
3) Will hold regular Friday night sing-a-longs on Morse Avenue to drive the drug dealers out.
4) Will hire cross-dressers as crossing guards.
5) Will personally build the new Gale Field house brick by brick all on his own.
6) Will not eat chicken livers, either.
7) Also will not eat pig's feet except on ethnically appropriate occasions.
8) Will go to every funeral of every nursing home resident who voted for him to show respect.
9) Will personally cut ribbons at the openings of all dollar stores, dry cleaners and pay-day loan shops opening in the 49th ward.
10) Will buy a compass and find out where North of Howard really is.
John is correct about CT Corp and UCC Direct. They only handle process service and corporate filings. They have nothing to do with day to day operations of the businesses for which they provide those services.
1373-1385 W Greenleaf was sold to an LLC controlled by Dubin on 9/10/03 for $3.5M. With 68 units that's a steal at $51K/unit. Dubin is a condo developer, not a rental building manager. This building is being let go to hell while it is on hold as Dubin times the condo market. Wait for it, this building will soon go the same way as the other large brick courtyard buildings on the block went under Joe Moore, gut rehab for luxury condos.
Dubin is indeed a condo developer. I've been to a grand opening development before. I also think the building is slated to go condo. Will they have CPAN units? They did for the project I went to but I haven't seen much or any in RP since I've been following the city CPAN website for a few years.
> Will they have CPAN units?
No. We have no leverage to raise the issue of affordability. No zoning change is needed.
> I haven't seen much or any in RP
For all his bluster Moore's CPAN participation is very poor.
> There are numerous complaints about this building both at CAPS and to the Alderman, but Dubin and Company always seem to get a band-aid on their building in time and get off the hook. The police acknowledge that he plays the game very well. Why does this building continue to be an issue?
Dubin & Associates, Inc. To Citizens for Joe Moore
$500.00 2/10/2006
$500.00 11/30/2006
$500.00 11/30/2006
The kids have no rights to sit on the cars at the corner? They should be in their condos sitting in front of the TV? You are Racist PIGS got it?
JC thanks for pointing out the mentality.
Hey sidewalk patrol, a couple of young black loitering jaywalking uncivilised car sitting kids smacked each other upside the head and leaped around the sidewalk, they were playing. Better call the cops to beat them up, or better yet just shoot them point blank.
Another CAPS beat, another drug house run by a Moore contributor.
Vanessa, they should be doing their homework. I'm way more concerned about the fact that the kids have to share the same corner (see my report) as the guys dealing. Kids should be allowed to hang out on the street in a drug free environment. It was an older person who lives in an apartment who had a problem with the sitting on cars btw, not some evil condo owner. Do we have a problem with older people now in rogers park. Are they not part of diversity.
Plus I was just reporting what happened at the meeting. Thanks for calling me a racist.
Yes Ok then, we've been having a nice debate, so maybe a person shouldn't scream racist. I'm less remorseful, than I am embarrsed, because we had some nice chats earlier. But I've been dealing with this whole loitering issue for a long time now. I've been harrassed and when you look at it from the perspective of someone who's been thrown in jail for sassing a cop who was breaking up loitering, what the hell is that- loitering? The anti- loitering ordinance, I remember exactly when it came, the summer of 2001. I was just sharing war stories today on the bus, with the driver who's also been hassled by the cops and he was still in his CTA uniform. And kids, I remember an outdoor music festival with five hundred people standing around an a group of seven or ten kids came through and got kicked out and a lady muttered they don't have any money to spend...I have a problem with this, I'll try to keep my temper, only because I have some serious stuff to say...Ok, so you were reporting the meeting, sorry I called you a racist.
Vanessa..
I don't care what color the kids are. If they're sitting on my car, I have a problem with it. Are they sitting on their own cars? I doubt it.
Also, I've seen plenty of large groups of kids wandering around the neighborhood, breaking lights/ windows, and throwing trash all over the place.
I get, "Kids will be kids", but does it excuse the vandalism that's going on all over the place?
Again... White, black, green, blue, yellow, purple, pink, brown... It's not a race thing. It's about respect for people's property.
why waste time on the streets when there's such a good market inside the red line tap
It's cool, it just seems that racist gets thrown around a whole lot here in Rogers Park.
For me, as long as they aren't damaging property, kids should be able to hang out in groups outside, too much time is spent infront of the TV. They should get their homework done first (these kids are there from 3:30-9) and I tell them that when I am out walking my neighbors dog and we talk about school and whatnot. It's a shame to me that they are forced to hang out on active drug corners; in my opinion that's what shouldn't be happening (meaning get the drugs off the streets, not the kids).
Chris the suggestion was to shag the kids out of there with a police car. Sorry, but the park is open until 11 and though it isn't supervised, so what, were you supervised every second of the day and night when you were a teenager? I wasn't.
Curfew on weekends is 11. So why can't they be at the park? That's where nearly everyone hangs out since the only teen place is the one run by HACC. It can't possibly accomodate them all.
As for homework, how do you know they aren't done, how do you know they even got any? For all you know they did it at school. It's the assumptions being made that leads to the police being callled which leads the police to resent the kids, which leads to a lot of ugliness.
Would the same suggestion be made if it was a group of white kids? Would the police have been called for the car sitting or would someone have said "hey guys, if it's not your car don't sit on it" And do we know it wasn't their car?
Be honest with yourselves, you see a group of black kids together what's the first thing that comes to mind? Do the same exercise when you see a group of white kids.
And don't answer it now, wait until you go outside and you're not thinking about this conversation. Wait until it's spontaneous.
I guarantee you homework will not be the first thing that comes to mind. And until you do this, and you are all truly honest with yourselves and the rest of us, none of this will be solved.
BTW this is not only directed at you Chris - you seem to get it for the most part.
Here we go with race card again.
Please, if a group of white kids were sitting on other peoples cars, hanging out throwing things at other people, breaking car windows and jumping on cars, I'd be the first to call 911.
And I have. The guy that broke into the second floor Rider building I caught on tape and went to court for - was not black.
FYI: I went to the CAPS meeting in question, yes some of our neighbors get bent out of shape over the littlest things. But they go to CAPS meetings. Do you?
"Here we go with race card again"
Nice try. I'm white.
BTW did the white kid that was involved in beating the living crap out of the guy near Greenleaf ever get arrested?
The victim knew the kid, he went to the YMCA after school program and his parents "were informed". Did they ever share his identity with the police department so he could be arrested, prosecuted and removed from the streets of RP making them safer for all of us? Or did they figure he was led astray by the bad black kids he was with and therefore had no responsibility? Maybe a good Dad talking to him will be enough to straighten him out - though a crime was committed and has gone unprosecuted?
Anyone want to share - progun seemed to know all about it. Did your friend ever give the name of the white kid to the cops or don't we want to give him a police record? Maybe we'd rather wait until the community finds out who the minority kids are.They probably already have a record, right?
I was at a CAPS mtg (that answers your question too) where the police invited them to call 911 whenever they see ANY OF THEM. Well, they had already talked to the guy's dad, but the cops had gotten no info shared with them, no name, no "he'll be at the Y after school - please arrest him."
Maybe next time he'll kill someone. Maybe next time he'll kill a lot of people. He is white after all.
Good one nodoublestandard..
Just because you're white, there's no way you could possibly use the race card. It gives you free voice to speak for an entire race of people whenever you want.
Where do you suggest the line be drawn? Do we say kids can sit on your car as long as they're not wearing clothes that will scratch the paint? They can break bottles on the sidewalk, but not the street?
What do you think?
I think if the law is broken, the law is broken. It has NOTHING to do with the color of the person, or the clothes they wear.
I say we use the tried and true axiom of:
"You can do whatever the hell you want, as long as it doesn't affect me."
As soon as your actions start to affect my life, I start to have a say in what you can and can't do.
"Would the police have been called for the car sitting or would someone have said "hey guys, if it's not your car don't sit on it" And do we know it wasn't their car?"
Learn how to read before you shoot your mouth off Jason. The point was the difference in handling it, not whether they should be allowed to do it. If it's not their car they should park their butts elsewhere. The question was whether to call the cops or tell them yourselves.
I personally don't like to tie the cops up with petty crap like this, that can easily be handled by anyone just asking the guys respectfully to move their butts off the car. I've done it to whites, blacks and Hispanics, gangbangers and not. I never had a problem, but I sure wouldn't bother the cops with that petty crap.
There are only about 8,000 cops on the street for 2 million people, this is hardly a priority (though perfectly acceptable to do in Winnetka where the police are quite bored most of the time).
The race card can ONLY be played by those of that race. I speak for no one but myself. The fact that you accuse me of speaking for a certain race speaks volumes about you. To believe that, you have already divided people up by race instead of reading my questions and doing a little sef-examination. Or did you do that and it made you too uncomfortable?
What is your knee jerk reaction?
The mere fact that you chose to attack me rather than address any of the many questions I asked, already tells me I struck a nerve.
Good.
BTW do you know anything about the white kid that beat the crap out of the friend of progun's? Was he prosecuted? The law was broken.
I think if the law is broken, the law is broken.
"You can do whatever the hell you want, as long as it doesn't affect me."
As soon as your actions start to affect my life, I start to have a say in what you can and can't do."
This, my friends and neighbors, is a beautiful example of the quintissential double standard.
The law was broken, but if the broken law doesn't affect me, go ahead and break it.
You, Jason, are one part of what is terribly wrong in America. You have no problem with what is wrong, as long as it doesn't affect you directly.
Problem is, by the time it does, it'll be too late.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Well then...
It seems we might agree about the "car-sitting" in priciple. However, in light of the gooning incident you pointed out, if I see a group of 10-15 kids loitering around, causing trouble... I'm going to call the police. It's their job to deal with things like that.
What do you think is going to happen to your car if you park it, and then ask a bunch of kids to stop causing trouble? Now they know which car is yours. Maybe they won't vandalize it. Do you want to take the chance? I don't.
BTW.. I don't know anything about the guy who got beat up. Sorry. All the people involved should be prosecuted.
I see you don't understand that when I say
"You can do whatever the hell you want, as long as it doesn't affect me."
I'm not just talking about simple things like a kid breaking my window. The "you" and "me" in that sentence are meant to represent much larger and abstract group than simply you and me.
You do with it whatever you want though. It's not mine.
Is it true that the mythical "Race Card" can only be played within one's race? That might actually rank in the top 10 most ignorant things I've ever heard. You might ask Joe Moore how a white man might play someone else's race card. He just demonstrated that he's very capable of it in the runoff election.
I would never compare what happens in real life with a political race. Politic is all smoke, mirrors and perception.
What do you think is going to happen to your car if you park it, and then ask a bunch of kids to stop causing trouble? Now they know which car is yours. Maybe they won't vandalize it. Do you want to take the chance? I don't.
And I guess that would be the difference between you and me. I have chanced it and come out the winner. I guess I have more faith in people than you do. I believe, and have been proven right again and again, that if you treat people with respect and dignity, you will get the same in return.
When you don't get the same in return, it's an anomaly and qualifies for the "we all saw the warning signs" category.
But that's just me.
if I see a group of 10-15 kids loitering around, causing trouble... I'm going to call the police. It's their job to deal with things like that.
I don't consider standing around in a group or sitting on cars, causing trouble. If I see someone getting the crap beaten out of them, yes, I'll call the police. Agreed it is their job.
I may just have a different threshold for what constitutes "trouble enough to call the cops" than you do. There have been people in this neighborhood that call the cops to tell 10 year olds to quit climbing trees. C'mon - is that really their job?
No Double Standard said.....>"BTW do you know anything about the white kid that beat the crap out of the friend of progun's? Was he prosecuted? The law was broken."
I think if the law is broken, the law is broken."
I do too. I'll ask Pro Gun about the alleged beating and see if he can shed some light.
Double Standard, why is it you choose to not reveal your real name? You sure know a lot.
And being one of eleven neighbors who attended the CAPS 2423 meeting, say howdy next time. If you say it just like that, I'll know who you are. I'll keep it a secret, I promise.
Oh, and this No Double Standard thing, how about if you don't want to give your name I can call you Fitz for short.
I am at work after all.....
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on how to deal with these problems.
I don't know your background, but where I'm from, it wouldn't be wise to get involved personally in the example from before.
I also think our definitions of "playing the race card" must be different.
As far as I'm concerned, any time you inject race into a situation where it's clearly not relevant... That would be playing the race card.
I don't think race has anything to do with people being annoyed by groups of kids behaving like some of the groups I've seen.
The fact that most of the groups are groups of black kids makes no difference to me. If they were groups of old white ladies, I'd still be annoyed...
I might even call the cops if the old ladies are sitting on my car.
FOR THE RECORD...
I don't want it to sound like I'm out there calling the cops on every group of kids I see walking down the street. Maybe that's where I'm losing you.
I've lived in the neighborhood for 9 months now, and I've called the police a grand total of 1 time.
When I saw a guy with a flashlight walking up and down the block looking into car windows.
Would you have called the police in that situation?
probably yes.....
As far as I'm concerned, any time you inject race into a situation where it's clearly not relevant...
Unfortunately, it is relevant.
Where you don't call the police on kids standing on corners or walking down the street, people do.
If a black kid leans into a car to talk to a friend, it is not unusual for them, and their friend, to be cuffed, searched and questioned by unmarked cars in this neighborhood, much like scenarios that Vanessa773 described.
How many times have you been stopped by an unmarked police car? Ever? How many times have you or your car been searched? Ever? How many times have you been stopped casually walking down the street or going to the store and required to produce id or searched? Ever? How many times when you have been pulled over for a traffic violation have you been cuffed, searched, had your car searched? Ever? That is routine for minority kids.
Ask a minority kid in this neighborhood how often it's happened to them, then ask white kids. You'll quickly see the relevance of the "race card."
There was a time I didn't believe racial profiling existed, until a friend of mine's minority child bought his first car. He was stopped and he and his car searched at least 3 times a week, sometimes with a gun in his face, never given
an explanation of what reasonable suspicion or probable cause there was, nor was he ever given a traffic ticket. He was curbed once by two unmarked cars on while looking for a parking space and almost didn't make it to school because of it. He finally stopped driving the car, his pride and joy, and became afraid of the police. It sat for a year, unused, and he finally sold it. Is that what we want? Is that right? Is that a message we want to send to minority kids?
I don't.
The CPD, in their own study found that though minorities and whites are pulled over at roughly the same rates, minorities are searched at much higher rates, blacks topping the charts.
Sorry, in my book that is wrong.
Assumptions are made based on what people see on tv and read in the papers. Sadly these events represent a tiny fraction of the minority community as dirty cops represent a tiny fraction of the police dept.
People need to exercise more critical thinking skills before they dismiss what all kinds of minorities say, from diverse backgrounds, socioeconomic classes, ages, parts of the country, etc. They can't all be exaggerating, yet coming up with the same story. It is impossible.
No Double Standard-
Once again, people show poor reading skills and are so quick to define someone they don't know.
As I have said before, I am only reporting what was said at the meeting. In fact, I didn't propose any of the "solutions", ask Craig, he sat right next to me. Actually, I said, "I'm not so concerned with the fact that kids are out sitting on the cars, I'm concerned that there are guys slinging, dealing, on that corner too..." So, again why should kids have to hang out on a corner where drugs are dealt? And again, I mean by this "the drugs need to go, not the kids".
Also, it is extremely important that children hear as many adults as possible say how important school is and have as many adults as possible show an intrest in their lives. Just hearing it from parents and teachers isn't enough. So that is why I ask if they have their homework done. Guess what- most of them don't get much or do it durning free time in school. Do you know how I know this? I talk to them, that's right (I said it in my responses) talking to the kids. Being indignant on their behalf without knowing the full story is assinine and sophmoric.
I think that having a car at Loyola Park at 9 (a seperate issue from the car sitting) to direct traffic (not shag kids as some want) would be a good idea, because pedestrians cross the street against the signals and drivers feel that the first 3 seconds of a red light doesn't really count. This is a recipe for disaster, not survival of the fittest as many in this city of all races seem to believe.
It's better that a cop car be there once a night for 30 minutes than have one night with several police, firetrucks and ambulances there because some unfortunate kid got hit crossing the street.
Answer from Pro Gun:
Hi nodoublestandard, We notified police, attended Caps meeting's and even cornered one suspect and had him taken into custody about a month after the attack.
That was fun and an excellent example of citizens and police working together.
Recognizing someone from the Y is far different than "knowing" someone.
If they attack again they will likely be the ones to need 911.
We are tight over here in Mayberry MILF's and one MIDF with butcher knives and Aluminum baseball bats concealed in strollers are all the rage this spring. See Ya at the park.
Nodoublestandard if you wish to be part of the solution then go out and be part of the solution.
Do not belittle the crimes or our efforts to follow the guidelines police recommend at CAPS meetings.
Expect my neighbors to be vigilant not vigilantes.
82-year-old former Miss America stops thief by shooting his tires out She was Miss America 1944 and later a candidate for Cincinnati City Council and worked to save Over-the-Rhine's historic buildings. After confronting a man she said was stealing from her Kentucky farm, Ramey pulled out a gun and shot out a tire on his truck so he couldn't leave, allowing police to arrest him and two others.
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