Good afternoon, Roger Parkers. I couldn't resist not to post on this blog anymore, especially after what occurred today. It wasn't nothing bad, though. Well, not in the physical sense anyway. Today, there was a lawyer at Sullivan who was telling kids their rights when they come in contact with the police. For example, if a kid gets caught doing something and gets arrested, they can say "I need my lawyer", according to this lawyer. Of course, you can still remain slient if you'd like. Kids were asking questions about why the police do this, why the police do that. Just stuff they wanted to know when they get stopped.
To me, this whole thing was a waste of time. I think that kids wouldn't have problems with the police if they just obey when they get searched and stuff. But probably the only good thing out of this? The lawyer told us if a cop is rude to us and we're calm, we do have the right to file a complaint. We can ask for a badge number, get a squad/Beat number, etc. But other than this, personally, it was a waste. It just seemed like an anti-police meeting to me. Of course, I'm just a "goodie two-shoes", which is why I don't have to worry about being stopped or anything.
That's all I have to ... wait. There was a big fight on Monday where someone got beat up. No details on this end. So, now I'm done ranting, talking, whatever. See ya.
27 comments:
Hey Timmy, I agree with you... sounds like a waste. My thought on having problems with the police is this: DON't BRAK THE LAW! You do this, there will be no issues. I am so sick of hearing the police do this, the police do that! Generally, the only people that have these issues, are the ones that commit crimes.
Thank you, Chicago. That's exactly what I thought about this.
I have to disagree with simplistic statements that say that to avoid having problems with the police you need to avoid breaking the law. It is important to be aware of your rights because many times police can overstep them. Timmy mentioned the lawyer talking about an instant where police commonly overstep their bounds. You do not have to consent to be searched and police only have the right to do so if they have just cause. Yes, it may be easier to just give in and be searched, but I would rather keep my privacy thank you. I have many friends in the activist community and they have had problems with police and have had "these issues" even when they were perfectly in line with the law. If they had not been aware of their rights, they probably would have been more problems for them.
You don't have to be a "law-breaker" to have the very occasional problem with the police, especially if you're in a strange city.
I once was stopped by the police in my old city, many years (decades) ago, while waiting for a bus back to my apt. You must understand that I did not even smoke dope when that was the done thing, but, after the fashion of the times, had a very "hippie" look about me. I was absolutely spooked, literally frightened out of my wits, by the illegal search of my bag, and wondered how these officers could finger ME for anything.
So this advice from the lawyer is not wasted. You could be mistaken for someone else. You could by accident be in the vicinity when a major crime is committed, like an armed holdup that leaves people dead, and they're stopping anyone who vaguely looks like someone involved. You could be passing through some town or city with a notoriously incompetent or corrupt police dept.
I think the better person to bring in would be a prison inmate to let the class know where crime can lead them. This actually does happen. We don't need some idiot telling kids to question authority, as this will get you nowhere. The only reason why this type of lawyer thinks this way, is because it makes them money. They know how to manipulate the system!
Let the kids know how bad it is in prison. This will solve the problem!
Did the lawyer pass out business cards too?
whats wrong with knowing your rights?
Craig, yes, she passed out business cards. She even gave me one and I took three. We were allowed to take as many cards as we felt we needed. I gave my other two cards to kids who I know needed them.
Chicago, yes, I agree, a prisoner would be better. And on the 20th, we actually do have prisoners coming in to speak to the freshmen class and the kids in the in-school suspension room. The program may be expanded soon to include the rest of the school.
themanwiththemasterplan, there's nothing wrong with it. It's just that to me, this lawyer was against the police. She made her energy feel like it. And you'd think these kids would know already from all of the contact they've had with the police.
North Coast, I actually do agree with your last paragraph. And at one point, she expressed that. This was actually one of the only parts of this meeting I found to be valueable.
believe it or not, many innocent people end up in prison. look at the men exonerated from death row, just in illinois. look up "the innocence project", as see just how many people end up in prison, and how cops do it.
this is not so much anti-cop as it is anti the structure that pushes cops to get arrests, whether it is the right person or not. that is out there. you could be next.
there are many, most, great people in uniform out there. but like everything, there are bad ones, too.
seriously.
Here's hoping that been there finds herself in Cell Block H for her artistic crimes against humanity.
Seriously
kids do stupid stuff when it comes to the law.
My dad is a downstate public defender, the number one felony he sees with black youth comes from lying about who they are to the police. Some people think you can get out of stuff by making up a name when confronted by police, but they almost always find out, and usually charge you with a felony.
My dear fellow residents and dearest Tiny Timmy:
I am so grateful to hear that the Chicago Public Schools are doing something to help the poor disadvantaged children protect themselves from the police. These dear innocent youths are our future and should be protected from abuse at all costs. Thank God there is a lawyer who is there to guide them and to advise them.
been there, sounds to me like you think all of the innocent people go to jail while the bad ones stay out. But not everybody's innocent as they're believed to be either. Lastly, it sounds like to me you think all cops are bad.
themanwiththemasterplan, I agree. They do stupid stuff in regards to law. Which is a reason why I said this was a waste of my time. It's not like they're going to take the lawyer's advice of remaining calm when approached by a cop. And yes, not trying to sound racial here (and I'm far from it), but some Black kids do tend to lie about their name to the police.
I guess it makes sense to have an attorney give them some information, although I think it's quite pathetic that high school kids even need this info. However, to give out your business cards - that's just wrong. She must really be in need of clients to be handing out cards at urban high schools
I've never commented on a random blog before, but I just stumbled across the posting and must say something now. I've met the woman who did this presentation and, as far as I can tell, she has the students' best interest at heart. She worked on the aforementioned Innocence Project that helps free wrongfully convicted people. The "business card" is for the non-profit she works for... I guarantee it is not a money maker for her. People, especially minorities, get wrongfully accused all the time. While I agree that it would be valuable to have someone come speak about life in prison... I also believe this was equally valuable.
BTW... the services are free to the youth.
Well, Raz, she gave them cards because she wanted them to have a lawyer to represent them if they get locked up. That seems like a nice thing to do to me, but of course, I also see the other side. I also think it's kind of wrong for her to hand out cards to high schoolers.
My problem is this.
What happens if an ambulance chasing lawyer like Westgard hands out his card to some unsuspecting student who doesn't know a good attorney from bad.
Poor kid will be locked up for years.
so because someone with ill intentions might give out a business card, someone with good intentions shouldn't do it either?
the business card doesn't even have her name on it. only the organization. it has a 1-800 number so you can call if you get arrested. 24 hours a day.
she probably hands these out specifically so the kids can call the hotline INSTEAD of an ambulance chaser.
Craig, Jenn is right about the card not having her name on it. It's only got the number and the organization.
Thanks Jenn and Timmy. I deal with lawyers all the time and I'd hate for these kids to get a person like Westgard as their defender.
They'd be screwed.
Yeah, I'm sure the CPD doesn't have better things to do instead of trying to put cases on the innocents at Sullivan. Pretty funny how Chicago has all these non-profits and community organizers doing Yewah's work with regards to the underprivileged, disenfranchised, and falsely accused and yet we still see the same problems we saw 30 years ago. You can't help those that don't want to be helped...
The "Wrongful Convictions" group at North Western have good intentions, but Fu$# things up for the rest of us who are law abiding citizen's and who live here on a permanent basis. I know Mr. Warden from childhood, and I also have a friend who was in the Medill School project. With the gloves off, both were from very influential (money) backgrounds and both lived in areas that have never had ANY dealings with the inner city shit bags that plague the schools and streets on a daily basis. Warden is from Lincoln Park and my old pal is from Wilmette.
Their intentions are for the good, but they don't seem to remotely realize that the kid's they are trying to protect are full of shit, and that the cops are bad. I'm 42 years old and I'm still waiting to be abused by a cop; according to them the CPD is out of control. I have 3 kid's and not one has been stopped by the police or had a school teacher inform me of any type of misbehavior.
As far as I see it, their helping the problem rather than solving it.
Social justice is the second most important structure in our society (family is the first in my opinion).
People like you and me are just as important, and to know that when we get beaten or robbed by the thugs on Morse, who the "Innocence Project" wants to protect, that they too will come to our aid too... Pro Bono, and help prosecute them.
They will never do that. Why?
chicago Mustard News, I aboustely agree with your post. If CPD was out of control, we'd be hearing widespread cases of abuses and stuff. But we don't. I've only heard a few stories of CPD abusing poeple, and those were bad cops who did it. I believe most of CPD consists of good officers but there are some bad ones out there. The kids just get mad because they get caught in the act. I'm going on 17 years old and I have yet to be stopped by CPD.
I also think that they're helping the program rather than solving it. Really, what good does it do to tell kids that basically all of CPD is bad? It's not bad as long as you follow the law and don't get in trouble.
However, at the meeting, there was one valid point that was brought up. There are a few cops out there that will stop and arrest somebody based on their race and/or color of skin. I've seen it happen. I think it's a good idea to know your rights based on this.
You know why they'll never defend us? Because they seek to protect the "thugs" (this word, in my opinion, is starting to be over used a bit. Just because teen guys have their pants sagging and quoting rap songs doesn't neccessary mean they gangbang. I go to class with guys like this and I've heard some of them say they hate gangbangers as much as the rest of us do). The "thugs" are their source. They seem to only believe that "thugs" are innocent.
There are a few cops out there that will stop and arrest somebody based on their race and/or color of skin. I've seen it happen.
What would that charge be? I think the people you have seen get arrested had done something criminal to draw the cop's attention. Like you stated, don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
This seems odd on its face. Perhaps, there is, was, an explanation?
This sounds like endorsed solicitation of an attorney at Sullivan to me. Was this lawyer sent by the Chicago Bar Association, ISBA? Was it an ACLU program? Or just some shylock looking to make a few dollars off students and their parents? Who requested the audience?
There are ethical rules that discourage the CPS from endorsing an attorney. There are many legal organizations that should be contacted. Attorneys should not pass out their cards, they should be asked for them at such events, if at all. However, if I was ever asked, I'd make sure that I had cards for the CBA Lawyer referral line, among other sources.
It is one thing for an attorney to discuss his or her practice and relationship with the Chicago School System as a former parent or student as a principal for a day. It is another thing for an attorney offer to provide legal advice or general information about 'lawyering up' complete with the lawyer's business card as part of a goody bag!
I have discussed what it is really like to be an attorney with CPS students. I would never pass out my business card, unless asked, and only to help the school with non-legal matters. I would try to encourage the students to consider the practice of law as a vocation. This program should be balanced with law enforcement, as well.
It is true that law enforcement makes oversights, but certainly an attorney needs to use care when approaching teenagers with his/her business card as a criminal defense attorney.
There should be some means to present law enforcement in a favorable light. Also, why, among other acts of callousness, open alcohol drinking and tossing garbage on the ground are not only crimes, but contributing to the rise in the rat population, among other diseases.
What a waste!
I just noticed that the attorney was supposedly from the Innocence Project. That said, I think that an attorney can present a person's rights and some of the injustice that may happen without foisting negative energy towards law enforcement. Mistakes and poor judgment are a fact of life.
There are two side to every dispute. In our legal system, we are told that a person is presumed innocent until found guilty.
Working for both the defense and prosecution can create a more balanced criminal defense attorney. We all know that a few peace officers are indicted and convicted. It seems like this counselor could have demonstrated sympathy without going overboard,IMHO. And so it goes.
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