Why have Animal Care and Control patrol trucks have been arriving as early as 7 am in Loyola Park? Apparently, enough complaints have been filed due to dog bites and off-leash dogs that the ACC and the police have made a point of showing up every morning.
Rule # 1.) "Fido" must be on a leash at ALL times!
Reports from sources I got say the Chicago Police actually handcuffed a dog owner Saturday morning around 7am for having her dog off-leash. They later released her. From reports I got, two squad cars, one patty wagon and the Animal Care and Control employee were involved with this single elderly female dog owner. I'm trying to track down the owner to get the full story. I also will be doing a story about a dog owner named Melody who has at least 5 dogs that roam the park off leash who got off scott free.
It looks as if we have a war brewing between some residents who live near the park, dog owners who use the park and dog rules that are required while having "fido" in the park. As one guest posted in another forum, "I'm sorry that your good time might be ruined, but I will continue to follow the advice I got from the police. I'm going to call them everytime I see a dog off the leash". After that post another guest posted that commenter was a "dick head"!
40 comments:
GRRRRRRRRRRR WOOOOOOOOOF!
PS Thanks for all the litter you left in front of my building the other day.
TSK TSK
Now that you mention it, Kids are great and all, but IMHO I don't they they are good to have in the city.
They cry at night and keep neighbors up. Then when they get older they vandalize and do drugs.
If you keep all the children in the country they can work on farms and help feed the poor people of this country. Then, they will also get more exercise and will help cut down on child obesity.
Personally I don't mind kids, but they should be kept in the boonies where they are free to run around and not take drugs and vandalize.
:)
If anyone in that park deserves a HUGE ticket it's Melody. This woman not only has five or six dogs of her own, but she also "dog sits". All these dogs run off leash in the park several times a day - I live across the alley from her and I see it. She doesn't have control over them and she doesn't always pick up after them. In addition, two of her dogs are large German Pointers who go after other dogs. One of them lifted my small elderly on-leash dog by the throat and shook him while I tried to throw myself between them. This dog also attacked the dog of a neighbor of mine. Melody's reaction to both incidents was "what's the big deal?" and "I've been doing this for years - who are you to tell me what I can do?". In short, she is selfish, irresponsible and a very bad neighbor.
I think that there should be a place where dogs can run in the park - but it should be an enclosed space maintained by dog owners. I think it should be in the lakefront parks because a. that's where people like to go and b. a more secluded park will no doubt end up being used by gangbangers for dog fights if past history is any indication. Outside of such a space people should respect their neighbors and use leashes. Please keep in mind that there are many people who use the park who come from cultures where dogs are not cute pets but rather animals to be feared. These people deserve respect, as do young children and elderly people who may be easily knocked down by an enthusiastic dog.
Please don't flame me for this. I love dogs, and your dog might be perfectly behaved, but the park should not be treated as a giant dog run.
Sally: As you may know and have likely surmised from my writing over the years don't actually think our Alderman is that bad. Not without fault of course, but then who is after all?
Hopefully your neighbor will find other sources of information to help judge our elected officials sucesses and failuires other than the local blogs.
Kinda like getting all your news from John Daly.
That said I, am glad someone read enough into my post to know I was talking about HELLHOLE FLYERS and not dog poop! (oh the irony!)
This blog is turning into a lynch mob. Now you are all going to pick on Melani- I can't believe it. No, she isn't a close personal friend or anything, but she is among the least of the troubles in our hood.
I walk the park with my dogs and have never stepped in dog poop- have any of you?
Jeff O
"I care about dogs, but they should be seen and not heard"
Are you saying a dog should never bark?? How totally oppressive. That's like saying a child should never speak. Maybe I misundersttod you?
I have never heard anything about Melani's dogs biting anyone and furthermore she's a community institution and very good with dogs in my opinion.
Dogs are however animals and sometimes unpredictable. Even a dog who has never bitten another dog may be set off sometime and snap. This should be understood among dog owners.
One of my dogs was attached by a vicious dog a few years ago in the park. I think that the people who are irresponsible are those who let their known vicous/aggessive dogs run wild, not those with socialized animals. I could name the dogs, but I won't. I just know to head the other direction when I see them.
There is a belief shared by Marylin, Melodee, Chris and others that there is some legal understanding between area police and the dog community allowing off leash use of the park in the morning. When challenged, they get indignant or run away from the police...very adult.
Posted my Margot
Careful now Margot. Those who live in glass houses......
>It would solve a lot of problems if we designated a small section of beach as dog-friendly.
Not the beach. For exactly the same reason as no marina or no rifle range. Dog owners are a special interest group just as much as boat owners or gun owners. We only have so many feet of lakefront. All the beaches belong to all Chicagoans. Sorry.
> ... many of the dog owners who regularily use our park for off leash exercise .. are afraid if they squeal on their neighbor, they will lose park priviledges.
There is no such privilege. See rule # 1, above.
I don't understand why this is such a divisive issue. It does not seem that out of line to require that dogs be on leashes when not in a dog park. I also don't think it's out of line to license a dog every year for $5 but there are many owners who don't do that, either. The average pedestrian doesn't know that your dog is a well trained sweetheart - and many, many people are afraid of dogs. The leash law is for everyone's safety, including you and your dog.
As for cleaning up after dogs, that is just common sense. It's also a health issue. Maybe if there was more potential for tickets and fines, those responsible for the nuisance would start paying attention, since nothing else seems to work.
As a dog owner, I don't understand why there is so much hate and bad feeling about this.
This was an issue in Washington Square Park last spring, wasn't it? I remember reading that one the police officers was transferred after arresting or placing citizens in hand-cuffs for failing to keep their dogs on a leash.
RPneighbor - I'm sorry, but you could not be more wrong about Melodie - she is a hazard not an asset. I have heard the rumors about her dog biting people, but I can't vouch for that. Her dog did attack my dog, who has hip displasia by the way, and I had to alter my whole schedule for walking my dog to avoid running into her. Do we really have to wait until one of these animals seriously injures someone to do something about her? She is not a nice old lady - she is an arrogant fool.
James - I think you idea is a great one for two reasons, a. there is a lot more sand than grass and b. the storm fence is economical and could be installed easily. If we can have an enormous plot on the sand fenced off for "indiginous plants" I don't see why we couldn't designate a similar amount for off leash dogs. When I lived in another part of town, I made a similar proposal to some neighbors (to use storm fence to create an off leash area) but some people told me there would be legal problems with a semi-permanent solutions like that. James, do you know if that is true?
And Thomas, I do agree that training is the issue, not breed, although I do think that some breeds are more challenging to train that others. And certain breeding practices can cause temperament problems, which admittedly can apply to all breeds, but is obviously most problematic when the breed is intentionally bred for traits (protectiveness, territoriality)that can easily lead to aggression if not expertly trained. If the dog is large and/or extremely strong that compounds the problem (yes, the Chihuahua could cause a septic bite, but a Chihuahua is unlikely to crush your windpipe).
I have a friend who is a very talented dog trainer, and she always talks about the fact that it isn't the dog, it's the people. People use their "pets" for all kinds of crazy stuff, for example a story from my trainer friend about the woman who thought it was "cute" when her dog attacked her husband. Now the dog attacks everyone - surprise, surprise, and they have called the trainer in and they still don't listen to her most of the time.
Dan, if you are talking about Washington Square in NYC, I think there is a pretty big dog park there...at any rate, it's a terrible place to have a dog off leash - many, many people and cars everywhere. When I lived in NYC most people kept their dogs on leash, at least in Manhattan. You think people are busy bodies here...
As for the officer getting transferred, my guess is that he arrested the "wrong" person. The sense of entitlement that some New Yorkers display is impossible to overestimate.
I let my harmless little dogs run around under strict supervision and they come when called- they are no threat to anyone. I keep my eyes peeled for police and when I see them, I put the leash on immediately. I think it's a shame that some reckless and rude people (not dogs)and a bunch of dog-haters spoil things for everyone.
Nico's Mom- I haven't seen that side of Melani or Pirate. I am sorry if your dog was hurt of course. I wouldn't call her a "nice old lady" either- more an eccentric actually.
It looks like I don't have to do the story on Melody after all. My commenters did just fine today. Great job gang.
Jeff O -- You're kind of a pompous ass, aren't you? We should all life by Jeff O rules which include competency exams for dog owners (outside city limits). What's next? Genetic screening and IQ exams for those planning on procreating? Whatever happened to live and let live and having the good sense to keep it to oneself how one's neighbors should live? That's the lesson I learned in the rural countryside where I grew up. But then again, I was raised in the U.S. by a liberty loving family, not a fascist regime. I'd suggest that you relocate to Europe but they allow dogs in restaurants there -- gasp -- in the cities!
As for Melody -- I've managed to steer clear of her for almost 8 years yet my dogs run free and swim. I have the good sense to stay the heck away from Lunt park unless it's during peak park hours when my dogs are leashed. Live and let live means working around those who prefer to live without dogs. No problem! There are all kinds of times and places along our lakeshore where dogs can be off leash (provided said dogs are trained and owners clean up after them) without running into bad dogs & rude owners, hysterical non-dog people, cops, etc. If you've lived in RP for more than a year and havent' figured it out . . .
Melody has been a problem for at least 10 years; the neighbors get pissed, complain to the police/alderman's office, etc., set out poison, etc. so Lunt park, as far as I'm concerned, is off limits for my crew until the Melody problem goes away.
If Melody's dog has bitten people or other animals then it should have been immediately reported to animal control. Biters should never get to run off leash unmuzzled and if they bite more than once, they should probably be euthanized, sad to say. But biters won't get tracked if the bites aren't reported. Report HER and her dogs. To everyone else with dogs -- keep your distance from Melody and the park so the police and animal control can hone in on her and not sweep up harmless smartass old ladies and their even older dogs when they cast their net. Neighbors justifiably complain about Melody; animal control and police come out, sweep up the non-offensive dog people, who then complain about heavy-handed tactics to police and alderman's office so police back down. Melody problem still there.
Excuse me John, but I witnessed the attack of my dog by Melody's dog, and almost got bit in the process of trying to get her dog to let go - Nico had been lifted into the air by the throat by a dog who outweighed him by about 90 pounds and he was being shaken like a wet dishrag. Sorry I forgot to get the photo - I guess I was too distracted by Nico's terrified screaming.
The only people who have complained about her on this blog are those who have had a direct run in with her. And no one accused her of poisoning anyone - rather the accusation was that someone was trying to poison her (her dogs anyway).
Pamela, while I agree that live and let live is a nice ideal I really resent that everytime I spot those pointers I have to pick up my dog and head the other way. I also resent having to move my schedule so that this destructive lunatic can do whatever she wants when ever she wants. I can't tell you how many Sunday morning walks have been spoiled for us just by the sighting of Melodie and her pack. As I live at Morse, I am really not disposed to "avoiding Lunt park" just to keep out of her way. I am sorry though that others are being tarred by the same brush by the police - but that doesn't diminish the fact that she is a problem.
One other thing I wanted to mention to you all. We did meet a middle aged man in the park who had received a minor (but bleeding) bite on the forearm from one of Melodie's pointers (he pointed out the dog in the distance to us) - he was upset and also very embarrased. It was clear that his English was rather limited and he did not want to report the bite to the police, even though we encouraged him to. In the end we just expressed sympathy and encouraged him to get medical attention. I did call the police later, but the bite didn't happen to me...Although I agree in pricipal that everyone should report dogbites, there may be people, who for whatever reason (perhaps quite good ones from their point of view) don't want any contact with the police.
I think it is deeply wrong to send the message "enter the park at your own risk" to people who, for what ever reason, are disturbed by the idea of dogs running free in a public place. As I mentioned earlier, there are many people who use the park who are openly scared of my little guy even on a leash (this is a dog that toddlers make a beeline to, and he is the most gentle, well trained dog in the world). These people are not "hysterics" and they are not "dog-haters", they are people whose cultural and/or personal experiences have left them with a very real fear of dogs. I think it is terribly arrogant to suggest that they do not deserve respect, when there are workable compromises that could be made that would accomodate everyone's needs and desires. Remember, diversity, people.
Nico's mom -- I guess I didn't make myself clear. 1) dogs in the park should be leashed. There are too many people who use the park who are fearful of dogs and even if your dog is behaved and you pick up, you will be tarred with the same brush if someone complains. There are other places where one's dog can be offleash without risk to those who aren't so keen on dogs; 2) as long as the dog people gather in Lunt park it will be nearly impossible for the police to nail Melody. She's got the drill down pat and has successfully avoided being caught/fined/penalized for 10 years or more. As long as there are other dog people around, she will be able to fade away and get off while the non-offensive dog people take the heat. I made the decision approx. 8 yrs. ago to not be a party to the problems there. My dogs haven't suffered for it. You don't want the inconvenience of walking a little further away but you don't want Melody. We rarely get to have it both ways in life short of instituting a police state.
My comments about live and let live were directed mostly to Jeff O who has a habit of telling people how they should live (who they can sell their personal property to, etc.). And to the rest of us who want our dogs to run off leash. Your dogs can be off leash in certain areas at certain times when there is virtually no one around. Live and let live means being sensitive to others, and working around them. Get rid of Melody and you get rid of a lot of the dog animosity at Lunt. Live and let live was not a defense of Melody. Biting dogs are NOT acceptable because they present a danger (in which case at least one party may not be living without injury). I wish she would pick up her dog poo but I don't think the ocassional poo is really worth a police state at the park, and I can think of at least 10 ways to make the point to her about picking up -- in profound ways.
Citizen action, like this blog, is often more efficient and effective than simply calling 911 and waiting for the police to take care of it. The reality is that they can't take care of it solely. Melody's continued behavior for at least 10 years makes that point pretty clearly.
Pamela - you were clear - my bad. I was tired and pissed off by revisiting the Melody incident last night when I responded to your post. I apologize. I see your point. I still disagree that avoiding the park that Melodie frequents is an "inconvenience" for me, as it represents the entire park closest to my house. I did mention that Nico is both elderly and has hip displasia, right? He does not walk easily on the sand, otherwise I would take him there (where I think Melodie goes less). Am I really supposed to pick him up and walk several blocks down Sheridan road to find a spot rather than use the park that is 500 yards from my house? Like I said, I see your point, but I think you you have to admit I have one too.
Thomas - It's not because she's "kooky". She is manipulative - I got treated to story of her life the first time I met her (before she attacked my dog) and she is very skilled at soliciting pity to excuse her anti-social behavior. I was pretty tolerant about off leash dogs in the park (even her large pack, which did cause me to raise an eyebrow) until we had our run in with her.
I don't have the name of the guy I met in the park and I can't prove that what I saw was a bite (as opposed to a scratch, etc.) which is why I said I couldn't vouch for it in the earlier post. I did witness her dog attack my dog, and I also had to deal with Melodie's totally unapologetic response to that attack and frankly that is enough for me to brand her as a neighborhood problem.
"Dan, if you are talking about Washington Square in NYC, I think there is a pretty big dog park there...at any rate, it's a terrible place to have a dog off leash - many, many people and cars everywhere. When I lived in NYC most people kept their dogs on leash, at least in Manhattan. You think people are busy bodies here..."
I'm talking about Washington Square Park in Chicago. There were a bunch of articles written about it in the Chicago Sun Times. My geography of Chicago is bad, but I think it is near Lincoln Park, right? They had this same issue with dogs off the leash back in April. The police were really cracking down on this in that neighborhood.
I would love to have my dog off her leash sometimes but without a fenced in dog park that is unreasonable. My dog is not vicious but some people are terrified of dogs. There is a little girl in my neighborhood who practically had a nervous breakdown when my neighbor's Dachshound tried to sniff her.
There is a small park at the corner of Fargo and Ashland that is completely fenced in and is rarely used by anyone. I tried to let my dog off her leash there once but thanks to a few irresponsible dog owners who do not clean up after their dogs (my dog is one of those that likes to roll in poop) I had to stop. If this were a designated area for dogs and was more frequently used, I imagine it would be cleaner than it currently is. I have been told that it once was a dog park but gangs let their fight dogs run loose.
The problem with safety in parks away from the lake in RP extends far beyond dogs. It is a serious problem for people and pets alike. Why is it that our lakefront beaches are generally considered to be so much safer than those in interior neighborhood spaces? I imagine it is a matter of more traffic in beach areas as people love the water. Can't we have a safe place for dogs in a safe park? Many dogs love the lake too and a small dog beach would enhance the expereince for dogs and owners alike.
This won't stop people with violent dogs from being irresponsible but it mat help those who are fearful of them to avoid confrontations with them.
Can someone explain to me why dog ownership makes one a yuppie? Also, I'd probably adopt a whole village if I had the money Angelina Jolie has. I hope that Jeff O is adopting a lot of kids and using the vast empire he spoke of about a month ago to support all of them. I wonder if any of his kids will want a dog or any other pet? Perhaps we should deprive ourselves of all pleasures in life and spend everything on children? Maybe Jeff O should sell his computer, disconnect his internet service and use the proceeds to adopt a bunch of cambodian children. Sorry you don't like dog poop. I don't like all the Cheetos bags that get dumped in my yard by the school kids that walk down my block after school but I'll keep picking them up because I value the good kids who like to stop and play with my dog.
Margot, thank very much for that information.
Thomas, I too have been saddened by the reaction of some young black kids (or their parents) to dogs, and I agree that some are being taught to fear dogs irrationally. When we lived in another part of town with more toddlers in the park, we were very careful to get Nico used to toddlers and he is very gentle around them (also he was kind of obsessed with the smell of the strollers, which was an added incentive...) We always try to stop and let young children pet Nico, since we know he is an effective good will ambassador. Nico is small and very cute, so I think that parents aren't as leery of him as they might be of other dogs. But it is striking how many young kids will ask me "He bite?" before they'll reach out to him, and sad that even at a very young age they are so alert to hazard.
I'll admit there are some people out there with an irrational fear of dogs but I thnk that kids should always ask to pet a strange dog before extending their hand. I do not know if it is necessarily limited to race but it may appear that way since the majority of kids in my neck of the woods are black and hispanic. Any minority readers out there want to shed some light on the subject?
Jeff O -If I recall correctly you don't even live here right? I myself would never dream of telling people in say Milwaukee how they should handle their neighborhood & community. I'm sorry, but you are really getting on my nerves (your intent I think is to annoy)and I have to say "get involved in your own community!"
I agree with you Michael that kids should be taught to ask first – but I also agree with Thomas that part of the role of the parent is to help kids negotiate new and potentially risky situations – “ask first” is much better than “get your hand away!” for all kinds of reasons, not least of which is that the two adults, parent figure and dog walker need to communicate quickly and trust each other. Kids notice this and take their future cues from it. What I was really trying to describe is that some (by all means not all) of the kids are so hyper cautious that it suggests to me that they have been taught to fear many things, including dogs, in a way that is disproportionate to actual risk. I admit I could be wrong about this - as I've said before there are all kinds of cultural inflections here, and I don't mean to judge.
Jeff o-- you really don't get it which has me thinking you are acting or you are stupid in which case I hope an IQ test was given and passed before procreating.
1. Different strokes for different folks means respecting everyone's decisions about how they live their lives and affording them the space to live as they see fit provided they are not hurting you. You want to smoke pot or be a drunk? I'm not down with that but it's your life. Smoke and drink away provided you don't drive and smash my car. You want to have 20 kids? Great. Just don't ask me to pay for them. Why is it that some of the most leftist people I know are actually the most fascist "tell others how to live" types on the face of the earth? In my corner of RP I am surrounded by the religious yet they don't get in my face about how I should live like you do. Your brag that you're not a Republican is not exactly an attribute. I have friends on all sides of the political divide and they are all smart, all have honorable positions -- even those I may disagree with. Dissing people on party affiliation is one of the most juvenile behaviors I can think of. Not sure about you but I've moved beyond high school group think and trying to prove coolness by virtue of which crowd I hang with.
2. Most dogs don't need 100 acres in which to roam. Dogs are adaptable and mostly social creatures(see history of dogs). Dogs are like plankton and adapt to their host feeder. They want food, a good walk/run/play, pets, to be with their human pack leaders, and aren't interested in the PETA vision. It's clear that you know pretty much zero about dogs. Why engage in a discussion where you know so little?
3) What is address of building you co-own? I think we'd all like to track it so that when it goes up for sale we can weigh in with our thoughts on the matter and tell you whether we approve or not. Hard to envision that you have been spending time renovating just because you're a nice landlord. What is the rent you charge?
Nico's mom -- totally understand and am sympathetic to your position. I wish I could wave a wand and make the Melody problem go away (on the one hand I kind of like Melody and her eccentricity and irreverance but on the other hand I don't like that her behavior is destructive to everyone). The problem is that Melody has been getting away with it for a decade and until she is the last one holding the bag, she will continue to get away with it, and the rest of us will pay the bigger price for her. Sad to say.
Finally, all children of all ethnic and racial backgrounds love my dogs. ;-) Even our curmudgeonly host tried to convince us to trade our most excellently behaved and beautiful creatures for his nutty beasts. Not for all the tea in China. My favorite day on the beach this summer was one early morn when 2 Latino children swam with the guys for almost an hour while their dad warily watched. I was honored that Dad trusted us and our dogs. All that training worked. When I got our dogs I made sure that they experienced everything so that nothing freaked them out and they would always respond to unforeseen events and people with calmness. We went to stores, in elevators, parking garages, road trips, crowds. They posed with strangers at Mt. Rushmore, rolled in horse manure in the Black Hills, have been swimming in the Pacific, stayed in hotels, flown on planes, and have done therapy work at the VA. To all dog owners: the best thing you can do with your dogs is to socialize them to everything frequently and often when they are young and continue it. I'll put my guys up against country dogs any day of the week. They aren't perfect but they'll sit, stay, come and not bite, scuffle, and lunge. They do bark sometimes though. They are dogs.
Jeff O- I think it's your hysterical and over-dramatic/inflammatory manner that I & perhaps others find objectionable. Have you ever heard of a concept called humility and maybe a bit of reserve when speaking/writing? In particular the printed word is even more serious and taken more seriously then the spoken word. Your hysterical attitude does little for any cause you choose to spout about I must tell you!
You mentioned crystal-meth- I hope you aren't using it. With your erratic posts it kind of make one wonder.
Guys, of course Jeff o is playing with us. Stop feeding the troll.
I guess I just can't stand unneccesary clutter- it's my aesthetic.
And it doesn't seem to matter to him if anyone responds to him, he just keeps blathering on. Ok, now I'll try your way!
Mike R -- Ruff n Stuff in Andersonville on Clark St. offers dog training classes. They are excellent. If they don't have the kind of classes you are looking for, they will be able to give you a good recommendation. Unfortunately the best trainer I've ever had lives in Fenton, MI. She goes by the moniker Mean Lady Dog Training which is amusing as she's one of the nicest people I know. But she's strict! I took my Newfs to her for training but it was a schlepp. In any case, having had both private and class lessons, I like the classes best because it's good to see what other people are doing wrong/right and it's great socialization and working dogs in a busy environment. You know your dog is trained when they obey commands around other dogs and people. If you are interested in competitive obedience training there are also some excellent trainers in the area who offer good classes.
Mike R -write to me at rrouilly@earthlink.net and I'll hook you up. I also suggest you look into Pamela's suggestions - they look good.
I did obedience training with my dog at the Anti-Cruelty Society in Chicago. The woman who did our training class was great but it was so long ago I forgot her name. At any rate, they may be a good resource as well. I also have a friend who was involved in an organization call Bully Breeds Rescue - perhaps they might have some advice as well.
You might also want to check out nopitbullbans.com
Here is a site that everyone interested in this subject might want to read:
http://blogs.chicagotribune.com/news_columnists_ezorn/2005/11/first_we_ban_al.html
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